Inadvertent $1500 in app purchase Tap Zoo - warning!

hmmm!

csound1 - i think it was fairly clear and obvious, btw we are not discussing correct grammar, so please refer to my full post as to what the "ignorance of "referred to.

i think some responses fir the defence are missing a point, i'd guess most totally agree it is not immoral to have dlc or in-app purchases - and thet can be at any cost price, while think a rio off others enjoy it so good luck to them.

but if deemed aimed deliberately at children or the less capable/naive that certainly is immoral in my opinion.

Immoral | Define Immoral at Dictionary.com

dictionary.reference.com/browse/immoral

violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.

i personally speaking i find it oderous having paid £45.00+ for an over hyped charted xbox 360 game, to be virtually blackmailed a short time later into buying DLC to be able to play online with others. Having done so the next version comes out and the expensive investment made useless. the call of duty franchise comes to mind!

But then has to be said total spend on a consul game is often way less than these "free often benial game apps", so i keep to playing my library and the odd free online game 'taster'.

alanfromwickford wrote:

hmmm!

csound1 - i think it was fairly clear and obvious, btw we are not discussing correct grammar, so please refer to my full post as to what the "ignorance of "referred to.

No, it was neither, and consider that your inability to describe what you mean may be a contributory factor in your not understanding that restricting the purchase ability of the device while in the hands of minors is your responsibility.

julian, i have no ignorance of the available tools.

restriction ares set on all my devices, as is remote wipe if stolen or after so many attempts at my password, auto lock is set to 5 mins - so please do not suggest i am ignorant if anything.

Better ti address the main plank if the discussion, than trying to put up a smoke screen approach please.

like many i have both free and and paid for apps, again like many i get many updates usually most days, it is a bit annoying to have to give my password several times for free apps or free upgrades.

i happen to lock my devices for the security of the information they contain, i also trust my children and my grandchildren implicitly, they have all been brought up to be open and honest.

for anyone to suggest that is is bad parenting while defending rouge profiteering app writers makes no sense to me and insulting to my children and my grandchildren to say the least. Their behaviour and mine is NOT in question!

alanfromwickford wrote:

julian, i have no ignorance of the available tools.

restriction ares set on all my devices, as is remote wipe if stolen or after so many attempts at my password, auto lock is set to 5 mins - so please do not suggest i am ignorant if anything.

Better ti address the main plank if the discussion, than trying to put up a smoke screen approach please.

like many i have both free and and paid for apps, again like many i get many updates usually most days, it is a bit annoying to have to give my password several times for free apps or free upgrades.

i happen to lock my devices for the security of the information they contain, i also trust my children and my grandchildren implicitly, they have all been brought up to be open and honest.

Tell them not to spend your money then, problem solved.

deggie - I just downloaded farmville, one of the highest grossing free children's games, and saw no disclaimer. I opened the game and waited for the disclosure warning me my child could accidentally charge in app purchases to my account, but it never happened.

Thank you for finally answering my question directly. We all now understand that you believe it is ethical, moral, and an upstanding way to conduct business. Targeting childrens games in the first 15 minutes with high cost upgrades is not at all predatory. Thank you again for making that clear. If it hasn't been clear to anyone reading this message board, I completely disagree and feel it is predatory, involves targeting children specifically, and is absolutely disgusting. Thank you also for continuing this dialogue with insightful, and well thought out posts, unlike Csound1, even through we disagree.

Furthermore, I have entrusted a reputable company (Apple) with my credit card infromation and do expect them to act responsibily with this information. If any company doesn't do all they can to protect my credit card information, I will absolutely never do business with them again. Which is unfortunate, because I have been a long time Apple consumer.

In regards to the legalities, a contract with a minor is considered void at anytime. If a company chooses do engage in a transaction with a minor they must refund the money at any time upon request. If a child presses the in app purchase, this is in fact a transaction with a minor, and the minor can void the contact at anytime.

Engaging in business with a minor is a risk internet companies are willing to take because it is profitable. They do not do any due diligence to insure they are not engaging in a transaction with a minor. If anyone ever has a problem with a company refunding the money, simply contact your credit card company and demand the charges be reversed. They must reverse the charges and then the other party has to pursue any damages in the courts, if they choose . This is another risk companies are willing to take for the convienence of using credit cards.

My guess is these predatory app developers are making so much money it doesn't matter to them. I am certain some victims don't even bother because they don't understand the law or their consumer rights. This is very unfortunate and allows this type of practice to go on for too long. Some credit card companies, if the charge is not above $25 dollars, will just credit your account and not take it from the other party in an effort to keep both parties happy. This also allows predatory practices to continue for too long.

Csound1 - Please edit this post asap and I won't expect you to post anything of value to this topic. Thanks

tumbleweed555 wrote:

deggie - I just downloaded farmville, one of the highest grossing free children's games, and saw no disclaimer. I opened the game and waited for the disclosure warning me my child could accidentally charge in app purchases to my account, but it never happened.

Thank you for finally answering my question directly. We all now understand that you believe it is ethical, moral, and an upstanding way to conduct business. Targeting childrens games in the first 15 minutes with high cost upgrades is not at all predatory. Thank you again for making that clear. If it hasn't been clear to anyone reading this message board, I completely disagree and feel it is predatory, involves targeting children specifically, and is absolutely disgusting. Thank you also for continuing this dialogue with insightful, and well thought out posts, unlike Csound1, even through we disagree.

Furthermore, I have entrusted a reputable company (Apple) with my credit card infromation and do expect them to act responsibily with this information. If any company doesn't do all they can to protect my credit card information, I will absolutely never do business with them again. Which is unfortunate, because I have been a long time Apple consumer.

In regards to the legalities, a contract with a minor is considered void at anytime.

Totally irrelevant

The contract is with you, your phone, your account, your credit card. Minors can't have credit cards or Apple accounts (minimum age is 13)

You are enabling them, not Apple.

tumbleweed555 wrote:

deggie - I just downloaded farmville, one of the highest grossing free children's games, and saw no disclaimer.

From which country's App Store? It doesn't seem to show in the UK or the US.

Here's a thing: Farmville for iPhone

I am correct. If your child picks up your credit card and orders something online it is an unauthorized transaction. Even if you were negligent by leaving it on the coffee table next to them, it is a transaction with a minor, and can be voided at anytime. Contact a contract attorney and ask. I am assuming you live in the United States.

If iPhones, ipods, and ipads are not designed or intended for children, then Apple should not allow children's apps to be sold. Apple has designed and intended their products to be used by children for learning and entertainment; however, they have not put enough protections in place for children and the parents. They should set their devices to adjust setting upon downloading a child app, since it's obviously been a problem for long time and for many Apple consumers. Apple has dropped the ball in protecting it's customers accounts, which they have entrusted to Apple, which is why Apple is refunding the money so promptly. In my opinion they haven't done enough thus far.

My mistake tonefox, the app was Hay Day.

tumbleweed555 wrote:

I am correct. If you child picks up your credit card and orders something online it is an unauthorized transaction.

But that is not what you did, I've had enough with your prevarication, I'm out.

Goodbye Csound1...

tumbleweed555 wrote:

Furthermore, I have entrusted a reputable company (Apple) with my credit card infromation and do expect them to act responsibily with this information.

You have GOT to be kidding me here. By YOU handing your child your credit card information, Apple is being irresponsible? How do you suggest that Apple be aware of your negligence? Remotely turn on your camera to see who is making the purchase? I am sure the responsible community would not appreciate being photographed every time they want to make a purchase. The fact that you keep on dancing around is that Apple has no knowledge of who is making the purchase. I would assume that they expect the OWNER to be making the purchases.

Your entitled to your opinion, but both parties have a resposibility. Apple is being negligent by it's default settings. Now if you had to adjust your setting to allow easier purchasing, you would, without a doubt, know this is how your phone was set up. Check the law, which supersedes any company policies.

<Edited by Host>

Hay Day has the disclaimer I was referring to, click on More Info in the description and you will find it.

You are correct that both parties have a responsibility, but they are not equal. If a minor takes the credit card from your wallet and uses your computer account to purchase goods how is it reasonable that the merchant would know this? The law voids the contract if a reasonable person would have known that the purchaser was a minor or otherwise incapable of entering into a contract.

Negligence involves state laws and is extremely difficult to prove. You would never be able to prove it under your scenario. I listed in a post above the steps that Apple has taken to ensure that the purchases would not occur. This does not require them to default to those settings and in fact doing so would be technically difficult and could actually render the disabling of in-app purchases less secure. And given the current situation you would probably have a difficult time finding twelve nanny state people to find that it is negligent and even if you could it would be overturned on appeal.

Apple as a party has put forth features, and a manual, that allows a responsible person to prevent children from making unauthorized purchases. Apple will refund the money if the person is irresponsible on a one-time basis. And the game makers, including Disney, have a note in the description regarding money purchases, suggest disabling in-app purchases, and list the in-app purchases.