WARNING - Compatibility of Canon Legria HF20 / HF200 with iMovie 11

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Level 1

30 points

WARNING - Compatibility of Canon Legria HF20 / HF200 with iMovie 11

I just noticed that the Canon Legria HF20/HF200 (PAL) is now included in list of supported camcorders for iMovie 11. Refer link below:

http://help.apple.com/imovie/cameras/en/index.html?lang=en_US

Previously, for iMovie 09, only the NTSC Version of the camcorder (which is referred to as the Vixia HF20/HF200) was listed as compatible. I suspected that this was due to the quirky issue that I once again will repeat below.

+With the PAL version, iMovie 09 incorrectly tags the 50i content as being progressive, and the 25p content as being interlaced. In contrast, with the NTSC version, iMovie apparently correctly identifies the 60i content as being interlaced and the 30p content as being progressive.+

+This results in the following outcomes:+

+For 50i content:+

+- When the 50i content is previewed in iMovie, it shows the horizontal combing effect on fast motion content as iMovie thinks that it is progressive and doesn’t do its normal adjustments (as it does for the Vixia version) when displaying interlaced footage.+
+- If you play the AIC file in Quicktime X, the interlacing lines also are visible, as Quicktime doesn’t know that it is interlaced footage.+
+- When the 50i content is exported from iMovie, the progressive tag remains on the file. Therefore, if the footage is played in Quicktime X the horizontal combing effect remains, as Quicktime once again doesn’t know that it is interlaced footage.+
+- When the ‘Deinterlace Source Video’ option is selected when exporting from iMovie using 'Export using Quicktime', the footage doesn’t get deinterlaced as iMovie identifies the footage as being progressive.+

+For 25p content:+

+- When 25p content is displayed in iMovie, it appears to display properly. It also displays properly if exported from iMovie and viewed in Quicktime X, despite the fact that it is incorrectly tagged as being interlaced.+
+- However, an issue arises with the 25p content if a special effect is applied within iMovie that alters frame size (ie. Stabilize, PIP, Crop, Ken Burns effect, Wipes, Ripple, Zoom etc). These special effects are referred to as scaling effects. Normally, if scaling effects are applied to interlaced 1080 footage, iMovie deinterlaces the content from 1080i to 540p. This has been a deliberate feature in iMovie since iMovie 09 (Version 8.0.0) to avoid scaling artifacts associated with interlaced footage when a scaling effect has been applied.+
+- In relation to progressive content, iMovie doesn’t normally make any adjustment to the resolution when scaling effects are applied as scaling artifacts aren’t an issue for progressive content. However, as a consequence of iMovie incorrectly tagging the 25p content as being interlaced, iMovie will treat the footage as interlaced footage when special effects are applied, and unnecessarily reduce the resolution from 1080 to 540. Obviously, this is a bad outcome as it means that the resolution is unnecessarily reduced by half.+

I haven't had the opportunity to test iMovie 11, but I just wanted to post a warning to anyone that may be influenced by the official list of supported camcorders that they should confirm whether this issue has been resolved in iMovie 11 before they purchase the camcorder.

As I not intending to use iMovie going forward (as I can't look past the lack of native AVCHD editing) it would be great if someone else who own this camcorder could confirm whether this issue has been resolved in iMovie 11. If the problem remains, the issue should really be highlighted to Apple, and the camcorder removed from the list.

MacBook, Mac OS X (10.6.1)

Posted on Oct 21, 2010 6:03 AM

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Answer 1

Oct 21, 2010 6:55 AM in response to Casho3

HI,

i've tried it right now and there's still the same issue.

BTW, if you see the compatibility list for iMovie '09, Canon HF20 and HF200 were already listed.

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Answer 2

Casho3 Author

Level 1

30 points

Oct 21, 2010 2:35 PM in response to Perdiletto

Thanks for letting me know.

If you check the iMovie 09 list again, you will note that the HF20 / HF200 is only listed under NTSC and not PAL. The NTSC version of the camcorder is called Vixia and the PAL version is called Legria.

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Answer 3

Casho3 Author

Level 1

30 points

Oct 21, 2010 2:43 PM in response to Casho3

Can a Moderator please move this post to the iMovie 11 section - now that this has been created, as people should be warned of this issue.

I am going to contact Apple and alert them of this issue.

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Answer 4

Oct 21, 2010 2:47 PM in response to Casho3

You are right! I had a better look later and it was not compatible in the PAL list in iMovie 09

Anyway, i tried this morning and I experienced the same deinterlacing issue.
My raw footage comes from a Legria HF200.
i will continue to convert my clips with the Elgato Turbo Hd before importing them in iMovie

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Answer 5

Oct 22, 2010 12:19 AM in response to Casho3

Hi,
I have a HF200 PAL, shoot in 25p mode (PF25) and iMovie 9. Have to do workarounds for export. First iMovie 11 looked promising until I found this thread. Thanks!

Clarification: Does the problem in iMovie 11 only occurs if special effects mentioned above are used? Rest is fine now?

Thanks, Olof

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Answer 6

Casho3 Author

Level 1

30 points

Oct 22, 2010 12:37 AM in response to Olof Forsberg

In relation to the special effects, I would imagine that iMovie 11 is the same as iMovie 9. That is, the problem with the downscaling only occurs if the special effects are applied.

Out of curiosity what workarounds are you referring to in relation to export.

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Answer 7

Oct 22, 2010 4:44 AM in response to Casho3

If exporting with iMovie 9 using QuickTime 7 (which is only option for 1920x1080) the details and sharpness is lost. The output looks like an upscaled movie. Workaround is to export as AIC and then compress with QT7 outside. There I use the x264 codec instead of Apple's.

This made me leave iMovie and move to FCE. However if these problems are solved I would like to return to iMovie and use it too.

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Answer 8

Oct 23, 2010 11:11 PM in response to Casho3

I have now tested with HF100 PAL. Put it in seperate thread:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2624499

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Answer 9

dommac1

Level 1

4 points

Jan 2, 2011 8:40 AM in response to Olof Forsberg

This problem still exists. Apple has not fixed in imovie 9.

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Answer 10

Jan 9, 2011 12:32 AM in response to dommac1

I didn't actually notice this issue in iMovie 9, but since upgrading to a 27" iMac, and getting ilife 11, i have this same issue now running my Canon Legria HF20.

Bit of a bump, but it is definitely an issue.

Dan

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Answer 11

Jan 22, 2011 9:40 AM in response to Casho3

Hi,

I have the canon legria hfr 106, bought christmas 2010.
I started using it on imovie 09, and i now have imovie 11. when i export my film, horzontal lines appear when something fast happens, is there away i can get rid of/prevent this from happening?
it is really urgent so if you could email ryanhoward@metronet.co.uk that would be great.

thanks

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Answer 12

coxorange

Level 2

151 points

Mar 11, 2011 3:02 PM in response to Casho3

I have a Canon LEGRIA HF S20 (PAL) and the same problem
with that special Canon "PF25" format.

See: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2759331

What can I do to preserve the original quality of the camera?

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Answer 13

meuse71

Level 1

0 points

Apr 2, 2011 3:17 PM in response to coxorange

Hi. Out of the blue, about a month ago I notice my legria HFR106 no longer syncs with imovie 09. Is Apple responsible for disqualifying cameras as they migrate to anothr iteration of ilife, or is my camera having hardware issues?
Any help would be appreciated.
Greg

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Answer 14

Apr 3, 2011 2:24 PM in response to Casho3

A warning doesn't solve the problem, but using a software utility can.

This is the cause of the problem:

"With the PAL version, iMovie 09 incorrectly tags the 50i content as being progressive, and the 25p content as being interlaced. In contrast, with the NTSC version, iMovie correctly identifies the 60i content as being interlaced and the 30p content as being progressive."

When iMovie detects interlaced video it deinterlaces it causing a loss of vertical resolution. (BAD) But, deinterlaced video can have effects that "scale" video applied without ugly artifacts. (GOOD)

When iMovie detects progressive video it does NOT deinterlace video. (GOOD) And, because it IS progressive video, scaling FX do not cause ugly artifacts. (GOOD)

So the best solution is to shoot 30p. iMovie will detect progressive video and NOT deinterlace video. (GOOD) And, because it IS progressive video, scaling FX do not cause ugly artifacts. (GOOD)

The next best solution is to shoot 60i and use NO scaling FX.

The next best solution is to shoot 60i and use "iMakeFullHD" to re-tag 60i as 30p. Now iMovie will not deinterlace causing a loss in vertical resolution, but you MAY still see artifacts when you use scaling FX.

For PAL shooters, you can shoot 50i which iMovie will think is 25p and so will not deinterlace causing a loss in vertical resolution, but you MAY still see artifacts when you use scaling FX.

Or, you can use "iMakeFullHD" to tag as 50i -- which iMovie will deinterlace, causing a loss of vertical resolution but also preventing any artifacts.

However, the best solution is to shoot 25p and then use "iMakeFullHD" to tag as 25p. When iMovie detects progressive video it does NOT deinterlace video. (GOOD) And, because it IS progressive video, scaling FX do not cause ugly artifacts. (GOOD)

So there is a solution for both NTSC and PAL shooters -- shoot progressive. PAL users, however, must use "iMakeFullHD" to tag as 25p.

If you have already shot 60i, use "iMakeFullHD" to re-tag as 30p and be careful in your use of scaling FX.

Follow this link to learn more:

http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/

The solutions are SO simple IMHO it would be a shame to give up.

PS: you should use "iMakeFullHD" to re-tag ALL interlace (50i/60i) video as progressive so iMovie will not deinterlace your video! It's not just for the Canon Legria HF20 / HF200.

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Answer 15

Casho3 Author

Level 1

30 points

Apr 18, 2011 4:16 PM in response to Team_Works

I don't share the Team Work's confidence in the above solution.

I have tried both iMakeFullHD and JES Extensifier (a free solution) to retag my 50i footage as interlaced and didn't get the results I wanted.

The steps I followed with JES Extensifier were as follows:

1) Import at full to iMovie 11.

2) Open JES Extensifier. Then in the Manual TAB select Choose files and navigate to the .aic file that was created on import into iMovie. I then selected Change to Interlaced under the Interlaced TAB, and then clicked on Update under the Manual TAB.

I downloaded JES Extensifier from the following link, as the older version available from Apple kept crashing:http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html#EXT

If you get the same results as me you will notice the following:

1) If you open the .aic file in Quicktime X, you will no-longer see interlacing lines (which suggests that it has been correctly tagged).

2) Unfortunately, the interlacing lines will still appear in iMovie.

3) However, if you create a new event folder and copy the .aic file into the new folder, when you open iMovie you won't get the interlacing lines. But as soon as you close an reopen iMovie they will appear again. This would suggest that iMove doesn't respect the changed tag.

Now as this didn't work for retagging 50i as interlaced, I don't have much confidence that the retagged 25p content will be properly be tagged as progressive. The reason I tested tagging 50i content as interlaced was that this is easy to see the results (even though I understand that this doesn't provide the best editing option in iMovie). Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to test the retagged 25p content as I don't have access to a HD TV, and it is difficult to determine whether a loss of resolution has occured on the computer monitor when a scaling effect is applie in iMovie.

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