Upper- and lower case filenames

Question

Level 1

15 points

Upper- and lower case filenames

I have two Mac OS Extended (journaled) drives with one on my laptop and one on my desktop. I sometimes get an error that reads:

"You can't copy some of these items because their names are the same as other items on the destination volume, and that volume does not distinguish between upper and lower case letters in filenames. Do you want to skip these items and continue copying other items?"

Recently this happened when trying to force move (using the Command Key) data from my iDisk to my desktop hard drive.

Does anyone know what is going on here?

Is it advisable to first copy data to the desktop on the volume that you are moving to and then move it onto the harddrive and if so what is the reason for this?

Thanks,

Jon

Mac OS X (10.6.3), Mac Pro, MacBook Pro

Posted on Nov 3, 2010 10:43 AM

Reply

Answer 1

Best reply

Kappy

Level 10

361,741 points

Nov 3, 2010 11:09 AM in response to Hotwheels22

"Standard" OS X filesystem is not case-sensitive. Although you can use upper and lower case in a filename as far as the system is concerned "FileName" and "filename" are the same. So if you try to copy files with the same name regardless of case then the copy will result in a dialog asking if you want to replace a file of the same name.

I'm assuming in your case that none of your drives have been formatted with the case-sensitive filesystem, and you should generally refrain from using a case-sensitive filesystem with OS X.

Reply

Answer 2

Hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

15 points

Nov 3, 2010 1:39 PM in response to Kappy

Hi Kappy.

The error message above appears to indicate that there is a problem with similarly named but differently "cased" files and gives an option to quit or to continue while skipping the similarly named files. It does not give an option to overwrite the similarly named files. It only gives an option to skip these.

This is the issue. I don't have case sensitive drives and Finder is giving me an error with (apparently) similarly named but differently cased files. The question is how to avoid this or get Finder to act correctly.

Also, do you know what is /supposed/ to happen when you move by holding down the Command Key a large amount of data from one hard drive to another hard drive - and you get an error that it has failed to complete the task because a file is "open" or because a folder does not have permissions or <whatever>.

I am moving 50 or 100 or 2 or 250 GB of data and it is almost impossible to sort through these folders and compare all the data in each of them when you get a Finder error. What the **** is up with Finder? Is there a way to avoid this?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to know if data has been /partly/ moved, /fully/ moved or whatever when this error comes up with large amounts of data being moved.

Isn't there a source for explaining what to do when something like this happens? The mind puzzle issue is almost effectively the same if you get an error when you are copying.

What are you supposed to do when this happens? Compare the two folders and sort through 200+ gigs of data? Do an undo and hope to get back to where you started?

Thanks for anything constructive on that last one. I can't get work done until I sort it out.

- Jon

Reply

Answer 3

Kappy

Level 10

361,741 points

Nov 3, 2010 1:58 PM in response to Hotwheels22

The Finder will not overwrite a file with the same filename without your permission. Normally a dialog should appear giving you the option to skip or replace the file. With multiple selected files the dialog has a checkbox to use the same choice for all other duplicate filenames.

You can only move across filesystems or disk volumes. A move first copies the files to the destination then erases them from the source. It may be that the implementation in the Finder is to skip copying duplicates during a move operation because the duplicates would be erased on the source, thus risking that you overwrite a file with the same filename that actually is not a copy of the original, but a different file with the same filename. The Finder does not perform a comparison of content. It only checks the filename.

Reply

Answer 4

Hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

15 points

Nov 3, 2010 2:30 PM in response to Kappy

Hi Kappy.

Thanks. Good information. Are you saying you can only /move/ across filesystems or disk volumes or are you saying you can only /copy/ across filesystems or disk volumes.

My impression was that going from one hard drive to another hard drive - that the default was copy, but that you could force a move by holding down the Command Key. When I do this over here the little green plus symbol goes away seeming to imply that it is moving. However, /sometimes/ the dialog says it is Copying and sometime is says it is Moving.

The problem is when it craps out in the middle of a Move (or a Copy). Ignoring the dupe file names with caps issue for the moment - what are you supposed to do when you get through a Move or a Copy (from Hard Drive to Hard Drive for instance) and Finder presents you with an error?!

My understanding of your explanation is that Finder has gotten part way through a Copy and/or (?!) part way through an Erase.

Is there any way of understanding WHERE it has gotten when it says it cannot complete an operation because filexyz.pdf is in use (even when it is not)? If I am moving 100 GB of data (or whatever) how am I supposed to know if it has only Copied some information, Copied and Erased some information, Moved some information, or Moved and Erased some information?

Irrespective of the amount of data, when you get to the point that you cannot reasonably be expected to manually sort through this data how in the world am I supposed to know what Finder has done? More importantly, what is the best way to get back to a point at which you know what information is where?

Thanks,

Jon

P.S. I'm moving data in Target Disk mode at this point and I am not getting errors like "The operation can't be completed because an item with the name "folder 100" already exists - WHEN I HAVE ALREADY SELECTED APPLY TO ALL AND OVERWRITE EXISTING FILES.

Reply

Answer 5

Kappy

Level 10

361,741 points

Nov 3, 2010 3:00 PM in response to Hotwheels22

The keyboard shortcut to move files only works across filesystems. If you simply drag and drop without the shortcut then you copy files but don't move them. If you drag and drop or copy on the same filesystem, folder to folder, then a move is automatic. Also, using COMMAND-C and V to copy and paste performs a normal copy operation regardless of destination.

Any time you do a multi-file operation that hits a snag the entire operation is aborted and not very gracefully. This is an oft complained "feature" which we have oft reported but which has never been changed. Doubt it ever will. It's just not high enough on the priority list.

My suggestion is to use some kind of folder/file to folder/file sync utility such as Sync2Folders. You can usually test the result before hitting the go button. Look for it and others like Carbon Copy Cloner at CNet Downloads or MacUpdate.

Large file transfers should not be done through the Finder if possible.

Reply

Answer 6

Hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

15 points

Nov 3, 2010 3:09 PM in response to Kappy

God Kappy.

Thanks so much for this.

I will move to CCC or Sync2Folders and would be happy if anyone has a recommendation on one or the other.

Kappy - this is madness. I have ten years worth of data that represents a professional lifetime of work. How on god's green earth can there not be a rock solid reliable way to transfer that data? I am trying to get this data organized on a new OS and it wants to crap out in a non-logical way? I might as well drive down the street doing 80 miles and hour with no doors on the truck and hope nothing valuable falls out.

Can I please ask you if you would also recommend not doing large file transfers while a MacBookPro (or Mac Pro) is in Target Disk Mode? I mean, is this safer or does this come with the same kind of issues since it is being done in Finder...?

Thanks again very much,

Jon

Reply

Answer 7

Hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

15 points

Nov 3, 2010 3:39 PM in response to Kappy

Hi Kappy.

Can I get one more piece of information from you?

I am in the middle of trying to move some data around (trying to keep it small) and I am moving small items from my Desktop Hard Drive to iDisk.

I just moved two folders (one I moved and one I copied) to iDisk.

I now have two dialogs: One says "Moving 3 items to 'Documents'" and shows 19.1 GB of data with 15 minutes remaining. The other shows "Copying 8 items to 'Documents'" and shows 113.9 GB of data with about 2 hours remaining.

Is there a way to figure out WHAT exactly is getting moved or copied? I was not under the impression that there were large amounts of data getting moved around and when I check the folders I think I moved/copied there is not a lot of data in them.

Is there a good way to get out of this? Can I simply Cancel both without consequences? Can I Undo once it is complete and is there a way to set how many times I can undo a Copy or a Move? Will Undo, undo both of these operations if I need to? Is there a setting for how many times a Finder operation can be undone?

Thanks.

Reply

Answer 8

Kappy

Level 10

361,741 points

Nov 3, 2010 6:43 PM in response to Hotwheels22

I'm not an iDisk user, but I would suppose that in the progress dialog for each copy operation there is a Cancel button. However, the copy will probably abort once it reaches your iDisk limit which is 20 GBs.

The only way to know what was selected is to return to the folder you chose to copy.

Reply

Answer 9

Hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

15 points

Nov 7, 2010 3:41 PM in response to Kappy

Hey Man.

Thanks for the precise information. Big time.

Understanding that Finder first copies and then deletes helps a lot. It would be nice if they cleaned up the messages. Having "copy" show up sometime when you are moving is confusing to say the least. Also, do you know if there is an explanation somewhere for some of these error messages? I got one recently that was very difficult to understand.

Also, I gather that there is no hidden way to determine which Finder "in process copy message" or "in process move message" is for what folders. I mean, if I am moving things around and suddenly see a message that I might like to Cancel, I currently have no way to make sure that what I am canceling is what I /think/ I am cancelling because it doesn't tell you anything more than that it is in the process of moving or copying...

Lastly, am I correct in thinking that the appropriate way to get back to a pre-move or pre-copy state - when Finder has crashed out with no info on what it has or has not competed - is to do a Edit > Undo? Is there a way to set Finder to have more than one Undo in its memory?

- Jonathan

Reply

Answer 10

Kappy

Level 10

361,741 points

Nov 7, 2010 4:38 PM in response to Hotwheels22

You may get lucky searching for error messages via Google. It's possible to find articles put out by Apple by searching at the support site - support.apple.com. But sometimes finding them requires some draconian searches.

If you have multiple copies going on then the Finder lists them in the Finder's Windows menu. Assuming you know which is which you may be able to figure out what's going on since they are usually listed by order of execution.

I'm not sure that the Undo will help since it's limited to the last item, must be used immediately, and goes back only one instance. Not a very useful Undo. There is no way to create multiple undos.

Reply

Answer 11

Hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

15 points

Nov 7, 2010 5:18 PM in response to Kappy

Thanks Man.

Tons of help...

Regards.

Reply

Answer 12

clinhart

Level 1

0 points

Jan 27, 2011 5:08 AM in response to Kappy

Help. All of a sudden (after replacing a failed hard drive loaded with latest Snow Leopard OS) I am getting the same error message & files will not copy from any drive - internal or external - "because it has same name as another item on the destination volume, and that volume doesn't distinguish between upper and lowercase letters in file names". I have NEVER had this problem before. This is going between internal or external drives, does not matter. I do not get option to replace or continue. I am trying to copy very large folders of many files - it gets so far (how far, I don't know), then gives me the above message and just quits. How do I get back the ability I had before when I could copy files between multiple drives without any problems? I need to have files names case-sensitive.

Reply

Answer 13

Jun 11, 2011 12:35 PM in response to Hotwheels22

I'm not extremely tech-savy, however I was faced with this exact problem when attempting to transfer my iTunes library from my old external hard drive to my new one and came up with the solution:

You have to format the new external hard drive as case-sensitive.

1) Go to disk utility and then choose the new external in the left hand column. (You have to choose the higher level icon).

2) Select the "Partition" tab.

3) From the "Format" pull-down menu select "Mac OS Extended (Case-sensitive, Journaled)" or "Mac OS Extended (Case-sensitive)". (Not sure what the difference is between those two, like I said, not the most computer literate).

After I did that my file would copy to the new external without a problem.

Hope that helps!

Reply

Answer 14

Jan 22, 2015 7:36 AM in response to Kappy

So. . .

I have 2 files:

ipt_ecn.h

ipt_ecnTgt.h

I get an "error" in that the ipt_ecn.h file ends up being IPT_EC~1.H on the target disk.

The ipt_ecnTgt.h used to be ipt_ECN.h so I changed it, because this is an obvious error/issue (and these files are stupid Linux Kernel networking files. . .)

Clearly, the 2 files have different names, but I guess the file system compares only N characters???

Any possible work around here or am I just Super SOL???

TIA!

Reply

Answer 15

Csound1

Level 9

59,973 points

Jan 22, 2015 7:41 AM in response to Hotwheels22

What you should do is eschew the Move and use Copy instead, then you can delete the originals only after the copy is completed. I have no idea where files involved in a failed move go.

Reply