"Long Frames" and drifting audio sync!

We've done a lot of multi camera event shooting and scientific documenting in a research group and have had a lot of problems with audio sync with FCP4/5.

This means that we shoot 1-3 hours events with 3-5 cameras and I also get hours of decument/interview material to capture & compress & archive/deliver. Most of material is minidv-sp, some dvcam.

So capturing whole tapes is essential and this fcp5's new multicamera editing feature would be perfect for me.

Problem is that some of the material seems to be out of sync from the start and most of material seems to be out of sync towards the end of tape after capture.

Problem isn't just playback issue, because exported lossless compression masters and compressed h.264-movs have the problem also with all resolutions.

I finally got tired of it and started to find out what's wrong.
I found very little info about how to fix this problem, just some suggestions about hardware issues and thrashing fcp preferences and analyzing footage with "Long frame" tool.

I checked lots of old projects with long frame tool and almost all captured clips had a long frame at the beginning with duration of zero frames. Some also had a long frame at the end of a clip with duration from few frames to few seconds.

Few also had a long frame at the beginning of the clip with duration of few frames. These were usually clips that were off sync from the beginning.

No clips had long frames in middle of them.

Is the problem our old minidv cameras that we use for capturing as they are not so good for shooting any more?

Can these long frames also cause audio off sync that increases towards the end of the clip?

Why this sync issue is so hard to FCP?
I've used about a decade avid and premiere and they never had any sync issues.

Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Posted on Dec 9, 2005 11:26 AM

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7 replies

Dec 11, 2005 9:20 AM in response to Toke Lahti

I have also had problems with capturing long sections of DV material and seeing an audio sync drift. Some have explained it as the fact that the audio on DV is not locked to the video but I find this hard to believe since I do not have similar issues with Avid.

I was told by a colleague last week that it's actually a problem with QuickTime and the way it encodes and wraps the media. This makes sense since Avid does not use QuickTime. Why do I think it's WQuickTime and not FCP, well I have also used Accom Affinity in the past and that had exactly the same problem and... was QuickTime based.

Can anybody confirm this possible theory?

G5 1,8GHz Mac OS X (10.4.2)

Dec 14, 2005 9:11 AM in response to Toke Lahti

Could somebody tell how these Long frames should be interpreted?
Eg. I have a clip that has "Long frame 1", Duration:00:00:00:05, In:00:00:00:05 and Out:00:00:00:09.
Original clip starts from 00:00:00:05.
So does this mean that first captured frame was 5 frames long and is audio offsync 4 frames?
Can this offsync be simply calculated from Long frame info?

Please, help, I'm going to have a nervous breakdown if I have to capture our over 100 hour archive again!

Dec 14, 2005 9:29 AM in response to Toke Lahti

I took a FCP 5 training course @ the NAB Post+ conference in NYC recently.

I also shoot over an hour's worth of tape at a time.

I addressed this with the instructor. He told me that there IS a synce problem in FCP 5 and that it isn't a good idea to "capture" video for more than a half an hour cause that is about the time you lose sync.

Is this something you are experiencing?

Dec 15, 2005 6:58 AM in response to Total_video Jim

That is the other half of the sync problem.

With long captures sync seems to drift sometimes towards the end of capture.
This might be related to this "long frames" phenomena that is so poorly documented.

But I also remember that we have captures that does not have long frames (other than zero frames duration at the start of clip), but they still drift away.

I heard also that PAL has these sync problems but NTSC doesn't.
Jim, I believe you are using NTSC?

Taking half an hour per clip is tedious thing to do, because it increases work to do, but I'll have to try that from now on.

Dec 21, 2005 10:11 AM in response to avidvid

I know that dvcam has "locked audio" and minidv "unlocked audio".
But we also have these sync problems with dvcam recordings with 48kHz sampling rate both in tape and sequence.
Anyway, FCP should handle sampling rate conversions without swet.
I've also checked from those clips' properties that sampling rate is always stated sharply 48000Hz or 32000Hz.

If someone has any information about how to read those "Long Frame" tool's results, I'd appreciate deeply any help!

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"Long Frames" and drifting audio sync!

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