Musical Theatre Keyboard Program

Hey MP,

I play guitar with most of the touring Broadway shows when they come to this part of the country, a couple of them are indeed using Mainstage and a MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) Traveler or Ultralight audio interface.

The last show that came here using Mainstage was Legally Blonde, each keyboard had a MacBook-Pro computer running Mainstage plus a rack with the Audio Interface and a line mixer which included the keyboard's audio patched in, the output(s) of the line mixer went to the main mixing board.

I don't use Mainstage, no need, just use Logic for recording/production so my knowledge of Mainstage is limited.

Let me say this, what you proposing is a potential minefield, and the expense is enormous as you will find the included patch banks limiting, plus you will need a quality, reliable audio interface for each computer/keyboard.

Also, if you're not use to programming complicated setups, (a music is a complicated setup) or you're not used to using software sequencers/virtual instruments you have a good sized learning curve in front of you.

Not that it's a bad idea, what I would do is hang around here for a while, ask some questions of the people that use Mainstage. The concert setups that the Broadway musicals use are programmed by professional sound design companies. Mainstage handles the switching/mixing of both internal sound and the musician's keyboard sounds (usually Kurzweil).

pancenter-

Hmm, not sure why it would be "minefield". I'm running a live rig with 7 keyboards all of which "flow" through MainStage via a multi-port MIDI interface. While I don't depend on MainStage for every single sound, I'm certainly using a ton of soft synths in MainStage with those keyboards and it mostly works very well.

I say mostly because I have found MainStage itself to be about 99% reliable and so there's always that little bit of risk that it will die. In such cases, it's handy to be able to have at least SOME external sounds available for emergencies.

dhjdhj wrote:
Hmm, not sure why it would be "minefield".

New, inexperienced user, expectations, stability (depending on hardware).
(also note the use of the word "potential")

A live musical is a mission critical performance as the onstage performers often rely on specific musical cues, that's mainly the reason the shows I've seen use a computer/Mainstage for every keyboard. Also, I think the two concerts they load in (1st half/2nd half) are huge and take quite a while to load.

If one keyboard goes down you still have two to work with, while if Mainstage happened to go down with all keyboards, it would be a show stopper.

That's mainly why I mentioned hanging around here for a while, you have a successful setup and would be a big help, however, as you know... there are some here having a lot of problems.

pancenter-

Yes, OK -- I agree completely with that assessment.

Another option to consider is the Muse Research Receptor, one for each keyboard --- that device allows you to run VSTs and you can configure such things as layering, splits and so forth --- it might be an interesting alternative as it's pretty reliable.

MusicalPrincess wrote:
Thanks, dont really know where to go from here! Thought that this may be a easier route to the normal Keyboard programing in all the sounds ready on each keyboard.

Will have to look into it a bit more before i make up my mind as i said i know nothing of the software and was thinking of working with a studio assistant to get him to input all the music and settings but i suppose either option keyboard or mainstage will have its ups and downs.....

What I advise is making a list of exactly what you want to do and what you need out of a setup, or as close as possible, always room for inspiration/improvisation. If you have a little bit of time, hang around here for a while, you're in the Mainstage forum.. post a list of your main requirements. Be specific, there's a lot of knowledgeable people here that use Mainstage in a variety of ways.

I think Mainstage can do everything you want to do, but it will be a daunting task if you are inexperienced with Sequencers, MIDI, Sample Playback, Virtual Instruments. You would definitely need a tech to assist in the beginning, that is, unless you feel comfortable with the techy part.

You wrote:

was thinking of working with a studio assistant to get him to input all
the music and settings

This is where specifics might help... When you say "Music and Settings", do you mean sequenced music that the other members would play along with?

pancenter-

MusicalPrincess wrote:
Well to be honest, the arrangements are pretty simple i was only going use the software to pre-program in all the voices (different sounds) required for each song. There is no loops, click tracks etc required.

Does anyone know if you can set the balance to what each keyboard can play sort of like a soundesk prior to performance?

And thanks for all the advice so far! Its really helped me.

I'm sure you can set the balance.

Do you already have the computer to run Mainstage.. if you were going to use one computer for all three keyboards you will also need a multi input MIDI Interface as well as a professionial audio interface, the Mac's internal sound output probably will not cut it, especially using multiple audio sources.

C'mon Mainstage people, jump in here.

pancenter-

Interesting thread. I've programmed for Broadway musicals, and touring shows. Sometimes Mainstage is the right answer, sometimes the Receptor is all you need. Sometimes a quality synth and maybe an external box. For a 1st class touring or Broadway production, I would never consider one computer for all 2 or three keyboard rigs. The previous arguments regarding failure not being an option are number 1. Sounds from a keyboard (Roland, Yamaha, etc.) are not bad, sometimes gorgeous, and reliability is 100%. The internal efx have come a long way, making them very competitive. If you want/need more and the budget is there, then yes, Mainstage is great. Now that we're well into the 64 bit world of Snow Leopard and 3rd party code writers have or are soon to be releasing 64 bit PI's, capability and reliability is that much more improved. But by the same token, you'll be spending time on the programming. If you're new to the scene of programming for a musical, be aware that no matter what you choose, there will be "issues". 🙂

But again, what are the needs of your show? Do you need orchestral emulation, or a more pop/rock sound palette? 20 -30 patches per song, or maybe 1 or 2? Are your players competent and not afraid of a volume pedal/mod wheel, or do you need a set-and-forget environment? Sorry to hammer you with questions (and I'm not really looking for the answers), but these are all very real considerations.

One more aside; given the prevalence of USB equipped keyboards and controllers, a multi channel MIDI interface is probably not necessary.

Maybe --- I have not had good luck with hubs, there aren't that many USB ports on the laptop and if you've got dongle-based software, that's even a bigger hit.

jimchik2 wrote:
Interesting thread. I've programmed for Broadway musicals, and touring shows. Sometimes Mainstage is the right answer, sometimes the Receptor is all you need. Sometimes a quality synth and maybe an external box. For a 1st class touring or Broadway production, I would never consider one computer for all 2 or three keyboard rigs. The previous arguments regarding failure not being an option are number 1.

Thanks for chiming in, this is exactly what I was talking about, and as you mentioned, even experienced programmers come up against issues.

In the past three years I've played at least 12 of the touring Broadway shows, two out of 12 used Mainstage, most used two or three major brand keyboard synths. (Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil) a couple of he shows were completely acoustic.

One of the shows using Mainstage only used it for effects, the main sounds coming from the keyboard.

pancenter-

I have used MainStage for a lot of pit orchestra work, and have also programmed a lot of keyboards for musicals. Here is how I see the relative advantages.

Keyboards (high end Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha, Korg) are solid and reliable, but take more time to program and may not have every sound you need. Some allow you to add extra samples for sound effects and/or additional instruments.

MainStage is reliable enough that many pros are using it, but as others have said, I wouldn't want to run all 3 keyboards off of one laptop. Maybe in rehearsal, but not in performance. MainStage will give you a broader selection of sounds, is much easier to program splits and layers, is easier to arrange things in show order and has the ability to add sound effects and additional sounds. You can pre-set the relative volume of sounds and you can also control them in real-time. MainStage can also hold a sound across a patch change for seamless transitions. Some of the keyboards will do this, but none as seamlessly as MS.

My favorite rig:
Kurzweil Keyboard (K2500/K2600, etc) These have assignable footswitches for patch change, etc. and have ribbon controllers, release velocity, faders, etc. These also have good built-in sounds if you need them.

MacBook Pro, with as much RAM as it will hold.

MOTU Firewire interface. Ultralite/ Traveler/ 828. You will get less latency with Firewire versus USB, and you have multiple outs. You can have string sections and brass sections and SFX on different output channels if you want.

There are certainly other configurations that will work, but this one is hard to beat. The Kurz allows you to use footswitches for patch changes so you can change sounds without taking your hands away from the keyboard.

-Thomjinx

MainStage is primarily designed for a single performer, but can work for multiple keyboards. Within a single patch each connected keyboard can be connected to one or more instrument channel strips (layers/splits). For example, some more advanced setups could include the classic 3 keyboard setup where one player has a keyboard in front and one on each side all playing different sounds inside of a single patch. If there are several players, it would be ideal for each of them to manage their own sounds/patches.

As for sounds, MainStage comes with "Patches" which can contain one or more channel strip. There are lots of patches designed to work with the included templates concerts. These all include on screen controls mapped to plug-in parameters. The non-mapped patches appear to provide sounds, but leave it to the player to decide which plug-in parameters (if any) they want to map into the screen controls.

Beyond that, there are probably thousands of software instrument channel strip settings that can be loaded in the SI channel strips inside a patch. Basically you get the entire 50GB sound library at your disposal for sounds. You can even play Apple Loops in the Playback plug-in, or use it for backing tracks you make in Logic (or elsewhere).

If you plan to use 3 keyboard rigs, and don't yet have computers, you should consider the MacBook Air which is small, lightweight and fairly inexpensive. The 13" MacBook would work very well too.

Keep in mind that its a good idea to use plenty of RAM. Always construct your patches to make sure you don't exceed available CPU. The other thing to consider is that MainStage, by default uses something they call "seamless patch switching" which means that if you are playing patch A, and hold a chord, then switch to patch B, patch A will continue to sound until you issue new notes. This means that you don't "cutoff" the previous patch during a patch change. Once patch A is no longer playing notes, it will stop using CPU. This means that you need enough CPU to play two patches at once. I only mention this because the feature is really cool, but caught me off guard before I understood how it worked.

Using Logic is certainly possible, but its not really a live performance app. It has no "patch" concept which turns out to be very useful for live performance. Also, the interface is a bit much during live performance. The full screen view of MainStage is a refreshingly simple way to work with your sounds. You don't have to look at plug-in UIs or small mixer UIs, etc. Basically, you can focus only on the things you require for your set. In my case, this is usually very little info, like song name, patch name, etc. Sometimes I use some knobs, but usually its just switching between sounds.