Macbook Pro 2.4 Santa Rosa - cannot get past You Must Restart Your Computer

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Level 1

8 points

Macbook Pro 2.4 Santa Rosa - cannot get past You Must Restart Your Computer

I have a used Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz that came to me with Tiger 10.4.11 installed and it worked okay. No kernel panics, etc. I then installed Leopard and the trouble started. Would get You must restart your computer message at every boot. Same story when I tried Snow Leopard.
I then installed a brand new hard disk. Then installed Snow Leopard and did the updates. It seemed to be working fine. After a few days now, though, I can't get past the Restart your computer screen.
Any thoughts?
I have some new memory on the way and wanted to try it, to see if the original memory might be the problem.
I also think the hard disk may have been corrupted after all these forced restarts. I'd like to install the new RAM and then try to reformat the hard disk from an external disk, then try to install Snow Leopard.

Any idea why Tiger would have worked, but Leo and Snow Leo no? Do the latter two have higher RAM specifications?
I had this problem years ago, with a Titanium Powerbook and Tiger. The RAM was fine with Panther, but was too low spec to work with Tiger and I constantly got crashes when trying to install Tiger. The attempted installs always corrupted the hard disk to the point that it wouldn't work with Panther, either. I had to reformat from an external disk and then reinstall Panther. When I finally figured out it must be the memory, I bought some new RAM and it worked perfectly with Tiger.

Could there be a similar problem here with Leo and Snow Leo?

If not the memory or hard disk, are there any other possible causes? I'm at the point where I can't even install Leo or Snow Leo, either from DVD or from an external drive. I wasn't even able to connect to another Mac via Firewire disk mode (this may be another story, as I only get a black screen on the MB Pro now). I would've like to try to install Tiger, but I don't have the special Macbook Pro Tiger disks.

I'm going to open up the MBPro and see if all the connections (especially the hard disk) are okay. And I'll try different banks of RAM too.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Macbook Pro 2.4, Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Nov 12, 2010 2:21 PM

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Answer 1

Allan Jones

Level 9

78,344 points

Nov 12, 2010 6:07 PM in response to moonshot61

Will it start in Safe Mode?

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1455

Safe Mode takes longer as it does some directory checking, so give it time. Also, should you get a workable desktop with Safe Mode, don't use the computer at this point. See if the computer starts normally first.

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Answer 2

S.U.

Level 6

9,601 points

Nov 12, 2010 7:52 PM in response to moonshot61

I have the same computer, and I have had no problem with Tiger, Leopard, or Snow Leopard. Snow Leopard requires 1 GB of RAM, and I think Tiger and Leopard require 512 MB, but run much better with more RAM. I believe my Mac came with 2 GB, and I have since upgraded to 4 GB. I think the maximum you can use is is 6 GB.

The black screen may be part of the problem. Your Mac has the NVIDIA GeForce 8600 M GT graphics chip, which is covered by this Apple program:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

If you do have this problem, then I'm thinking since it's a hardware problem, it could be a factor in the kernel panics. This is not my area of expertise, but it may be that the extra features of Leopard and Snow Leopard may be asking more of the graphics chip, and it is acting up. It could also just be coincidence and have more to do with the chip itself. I really don't know.

In any event, Apple has a special hardware test they can run to diagnose this problem, and if you have it, the repair will be to replace the logic board and it will be done at no cost to you.

If the black screen persists no matter what you do, have the Mac tested and see what the test shows.

Good luck!

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Answer 3

moonshot61 Author

Level 1

8 points

Nov 13, 2010 12:06 AM in response to Allan Jones

Hi. Yes, it started in Safe Mode. I got the Apple screen, then the grey progress bar at the bottom of the screen, but the progress bar did not complete; it stopped about half way across, then disappeared off screen, and about 5 seconds later the You Must Restart page came down.

By starting in Safe Mode the computer took a lot longer before going to the You Must Restart page.
Could it be that it was going thru checks and didn't freeze until it got to the problem (hardware? software?) that is causing the kernel panics?
It would seem to be a hardware problem, though, given that the computer worked okay with Tiger, but freezes up with Leo and Snow Leo.

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Answer 4

moonshot61 Author

Level 1

8 points

Nov 13, 2010 12:15 AM in response to S.U.

Thanks for the post. I'm familiar with the NVIDIA chip problem, as I've already had 2 Macbook Pros that were repaired under the Apple program.

The black screen was a bit of a red herring maybe, as it only came up once, when I was trying to connect the Macbook Pro to another Mac in Firewire disk mode. This too was a bit odd. It starts up okay when not in FW mode. My idea was to wipe the disk and try to clone a good working system onto the Macbook Pro.
Could the hardware problem causing the freezes be something related to Firewire?

Re. memory, I have 1GB installed in the MBPro, as I'm testing different RAM modules. It gets the You Must Restart page with 1GB or 2GB.

I think I do remember reading somewhere (can't find the page now) that other people had a similar problem and traced it to RAM: i.e., their MBPro (same model as mine) worked fine under Tiger (the special 10.4.9 Install disk that shipped with the computer, plus updates to 10.4.11), but got freezes and the You Must Restart page when trying to use Leopard. Seems the RAM that worked under Tiger wasn't up to spec for Leopard.

Anyway, I'm going to open up the MBPro today and have a look that everything's been put back together okay. Will also try with a new hard disk and different RAM modules.

Worst case? Logic board? But if the logic board were defective, would I be able to boot the computer at all?

Any and all help greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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Answer 5

moonshot61 Author

Level 1

8 points

Nov 13, 2010 4:24 AM in response to moonshot61

So, made some changes with the Macbook Pro.
I had another one from the same series that doesn't start up, so got the idea to swap some parts.

I swapped the hard drive cable, hard drive (with Leopard already installed), the RAM (know to be working) and the keyboard.

The MBPro now starts up with both a Snow Leo install DVD and off the internal hard disk.
No longer get the You Must Restart message.

But I can't get past the startup screen: I get the Apple logo and the spinning wheel widget, but that's it. Starting up from the DVD, at a certain point the wheel stops completely.
Starting up from the internal disk, the wheel doesn't stop, but keeps spinning.

I cannot boot into Safe mode - no progress bar, etc. The computer just boots directly into a regular start up.

Any ideas? Thanks.

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Answer 6

tjk

Level 9

51,192 points

Nov 13, 2010 7:45 AM in response to moonshot61

Hi m,

I have no idea which part of the logic board may be at fault, but it seems certain that the LB is at fault. Normal fix for that is to replace the LB.

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Answer 7

moonshot61 Author

Level 1

8 points

Nov 13, 2010 9:40 AM in response to tjk

It could be. But the question is, why would it work with Tiger and not with Leopard or Snow Leopard?
Anyway, I'm going to try to get ahold of the 10.4.9 install disks for the MBPro and see if it will work longer term with Tiger.

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Answer 8

tjk

Level 9

51,192 points

Nov 13, 2010 10:35 AM in response to moonshot61

moonshot61 wrote:
It could be. But the question is, why would it work with Tiger and not with Leopard or Snow Leopard?

Has this new hardware creation worked with Tiger? If so, you didn't mention that.

You also said in your OP that it did work with SL for a few days. If it works, it works, and it's not the OS. Try installing Windows on a Mac without Bootcamp or other software that will allow Windows to work, and it is NOT going to work for a second, much less a few days, because the software is incompatible.

Anyway, I'm going to try to get ahold of the 10.4.9 install disks for the MBPro and see if it will work longer term with Tiger.

No harm in trying that.

You also mentioned RAM earlier. That is certainly a possibility, especially when upgrading the OS; as you stated, some RAM can work fine with an earlier OS, and then have issues with a later OS. This is very unusual with stock RAM however.

Are the L and SL disks you're using retail discs, not discs that shipped with another Mac?

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Answer 9

moonshot61 Author

Level 1

8 points

Nov 14, 2010 4:23 PM in response to tjk

It could be the install disks.

I managed to boot in Target disk mode with an iMac, then reformatted the MBPro hard disk and cloned the system to it. Didn't work. Got the You Must Restart screen.

I think the other attempts to install the OS were done either using non-original install disks or by cloning the OS from a different Mac (not a MBPro).

I think the original DVDs that came with it were Tiger, but I don't have them now. I have a Leopard "drop in" DVD (from a Macbook, IIRC) and a Snow Leopard 10.6.3 from a Macbook.

Could that be a possible cause of the problems?

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Answer 10

tjk

Level 9

51,192 points

Nov 14, 2010 4:33 PM in response to moonshot61

moonshot61 wrote:
It could be the install disks.

I managed to boot in Target disk mode with an iMac, then reformatted the MBPro hard disk and cloned the system to it. Didn't work. Got the You Must Restart screen.

I think the other attempts to install the OS were done either using non-original install disks or by cloning the OS from a different Mac (not a MBPro).

I think the original DVDs that came with it were Tiger, but I don't have them now. I have a Leopard "drop in" DVD (from a Macbook, IIRC) and a Snow Leopard 10.6.3 from a Macbook.

Could that be a possible cause of the problems?

Yes. You should find the original install discs, run Apple Hardware Test, and install the original OS and see if this functions.

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Answer 11

moonshot61 Author

Level 1

8 points

Dec 13, 2010 3:30 AM in response to tjk

Okay, this finally worked. I found the original disks (10.4) and successfully booted to the Hardware Test page. Good news, as I hadn't been able to boot the computer into any system for weeks.
I ran the short test (no problems found), then the extended test (no problems found) and then the short test again just for good luck. No hardware problems found.
I had the option to shut down or restart, so I restarted and held down the C key. And the computer booted to the Install screen.
Just to note again, that I hadn't been able to boot from this DVD for a couple weeks, as it always ended with a kernel panic even before getting to the install page. Did merely running the Hardware Test, even though no problems were found, allow me to boot sucessfully from the DVD? Weird.
So I then reformatted and tested the hard disk, which all went okay.
I then installed 10.4.9 (the original system), but none of the extra third party apps.
I've been running the MBPro for about 24 hours now and it's working fine.
I've downloaded the updates for 10.4 (Combo 10.4.11 update, Airport Extreme update, Java update), but I haven't installed them yet.
I'm able to shut down and restart without kernel panics. Everything seems to be running fine.

Now, the question is: why did the kernel panics start in the first place, and why did the continue?

I can't be sure, but it may be one or both of the following: there was a problem with the RAM (faulty, maybe low-grade or bad spec) that surfaced when I upgraded to Leopard, which caused the repeated kernel panics and, after several freezes and reboots, corrupted the system on the hard disk.
So changing the RAM wasn't enough on its own. The hard disk was still corrupted. And installed Snow Leopard (from Target Disk Mode) didn't solve the problem either.
Also, there may have been a problem with the versions of Leopard and Snow Leopard that I installed. That is, they weren't the specific installs for my Macbook Pro. This theory gains some credibility from the fact that I was able to boot from the original Tiger DVD, run the hardware test, and then successfully install Tiger. Those are the original DVDs for this specific Macbook Pro.

I will try to get my hands on Retail copies of Leopard and Snow Leopard before trying to install either of them. I don't recall which DVDs I used to installed them in the past. But it is possible that they came from one of our other Macs in the house.

So, for the time being, the MBPro is working fine with 10.4.9. I don't know how soon I want to "risk" updating and subsequently upgrading.

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Answer 12

tjk

Level 9

51,192 points

Dec 13, 2010 4:06 PM in response to moonshot61

moonshot61 wrote:
Now, the question is: why did the kernel panics start in the first place, and why did the continue?

Without going back and trying to recreate each change you made, both hardware and software, that's difficult to say. It may even be a combination of things. In any case, I'd stay with the stock Tiger install for a few days until you are confident everything is working properly. After that, clone the install to an external drive, install one update, repair permissions, and run with that for a few days. If it's good, clone it. In this way, if trouble develops again, you'll know what caused it, and can easily revert to the previous clone that worked fine.

I can't be sure, but it may be one or both of the following: there was a problem with the RAM (faulty, maybe low-grade or bad spec) that surfaced when I upgraded to Leopard, which caused the repeated kernel panics and, after several freezes and reboots, corrupted the system on the hard disk.

Certainly possible.

Also, there may have been a problem with the versions of Leopard and Snow Leopard that I installed. That is, they weren't the specific installs for my Macbook Pro. This theory gains some credibility from the fact that I was able to boot from the original Tiger DVD, run the hardware test, and then successfully install Tiger. Those are the original DVDs for this specific Macbook Pro.

That's why we keep those and revert to them if we need to. 😉

I will try to get my hands on Retail copies of Leopard and Snow Leopard before trying to install either of them.

Yes, that is the correct way to do it.

I don't recall which DVDs I used to installed them in the past. But it is possible that they came from one of our other Macs in the house.

Well, if you don't have retail L or SL discs, sounds rather likely . . . .

So, for the time being, the MBPro is working fine with 10.4.9. I don't know how soon I want to "risk" updating and subsequently upgrading.

See my comments above about waiting a few days, then one at a time.

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