MBP 15" connected to Dell U2711 monitor - PCIe malfunction?

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MBP 15" connected to Dell U2711 monitor - PCIe malfunction?

Hi all,

I bought a new MacBookPro 15" this summer. I also purchased a Dell U2711 monitor and a minidisplayport-to-displayport cable to connect the two. The U2711 is Dell's top monitor with a 2560x1440 resolution.

Here's the deal:
* Connecting the U2711 to my roommate's 2010 MBP 13", everything works flawlessly at maximum resolution. This proves that the monitor and the cable have no problems.
* Connecting the U2711 to my 2010 MBP 15" (everything updated to last version), is a different story. It drives the monitor fine at 1080p (1920x1080), 720p, and a few lower settings. However, when choosing 2560x1440 (or a few less common lower resolutions), there is a very annoying flickering on the screen. After closing the lid of the MBP (which shuts off the screen after 15 seconds or so) and opening again, the flickering is less strong, but still way too annoying to tolerate. (According the a mac store person here in town, closing switches the graphics, which seems to help slightly but not enough.)

I took my MBP to the store, where it drives Apple's large displays without any problem. So my laptop and its displayport aren't broken, either.

What's going on?

SPECS OF THE MPB 13
Nvidia GeForce 320M, PCI-bus, 256MB, ROM revision 3533, ...etc.
SPECS OF THE MBP 15
Nvidia GeForce 330M, PCIe-bus, 256MB, ROM revision 3560, ... etc.

On both machines, the monitor is listed identically (DELL U2711, 2560x1440@60Hz, 32bit color, connection type Displayport, etc.).

The relevant difference is that the MBP13 uses PCI, and the MBP15 uses PCIe (or PCI express). I've come across a few hints on the internet that Apple's implementation of PCIe is buggy or problematic.

E.g., this company ( http://support.villagetronic.com//faq.php?cid=1&answer=3#f3 ) makes external graphics cards, and their faq on mac's says:
[ begin quote]
ViDock 3, ViDock 4, and ViDock 4 Plus adapt PCIe cards to an ExpressCard slot. They work with any compliant ExpressCard slot, including the slot in the MacBook Pro. PCIe cards that do not require a large PCIe memory window, such as professional video editing cards and storage controllers, will work with MacBook Pro and ViDock.

However, only MacBook Pro generations 1, 2, and 4 support graphics cards on the PCIe bus provided in its ExpressCard slot. Other generations of MacBook Pro impose limitations on the memory resources allowed to be assigned to PCIe devices in the ExpressCard slot. PCIe graphics cards used in ViDock require more memory resources than are allowed.

[...]

ViDocks support any MacBook Pro. The compatibility problem lies on the Apple side. If you insert a VIdeo Editing card, Fire WIre Card or Hard Disk RAID controller card, they will all work in every MacBook Pro. But once you insert a graphics card some MacBook Pro models refuse to grant as much memory to the graphics card as they request. (The reason for mentioned cards all work is because they request so little memory.)

So, if you want to use PCIe cards that do not require a large memory window (PCIe graphics cards require a 256MB window) then ViDock 4 will not work for you. Examples of cards that do work are professional video and audio editing cards (BMD, AJA) and storage interface cards (SATA, 1394).
[end quote]

I'm guessing that maybe this is somehow connected to the problems I'm having?

If anyone has further ideas about this, or has succeeded in running the U2711 at max resolution from a MBP 15", I'd love to hear from you!

I'd also appreciate some response from Apple if anyone there happens across this post: I know your and Dell's small print says you don't guarantee anything when combining hardware like this, but really, it's not a far-fetched combination.

Thanks!

Kevin

PS I'd rather not downgrade to a MBP13" as I put the larger screen and extra power to good use. I see no use in upgrading to a more powerful MBP.
Also, I like the Dell monitor more than the corresponding Apple screen (cheaper, less glossy, and it has deep color) - if I sold it on the used market and bought a new Apple monitor, that'd set me back $500 or so.

More specs:
Hardware Overview:

Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro6,2
Processor Name: Intel Core i5
Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 4.8 GT/s
Boot ROM Version: MBP61.0057.B0C

MacBook Pro 15", Mac OS X (10.6.4)

Posted on Nov 14, 2010 1:56 PM

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Answer 1

kevinnnnnnn Author

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Nov 14, 2010 2:14 PM in response to kevinnnnnnn

Looking through reviews, I see plenty more successful MBP13"+U2711 combinations, also older (2008, 2009) MBP 15" + U2711, but no 2010 MBP 15" + U2711.

On this page http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=921932 at least one other person reports the same problem as me (4th post down; and there's a second, but seemingly different, complaint near the bottom of the page).

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Answer 2

Nov 17, 2010 2:41 AM in response to kevinnnnnnn

I have the same setup and the same problems. Also tried with the expensive Dual DVI-converter but that also has problems ("white noise" on screen, not the same flickering).

I've tried it with two different Macbook Pros, both from 2010, one Core Duo and on i7.

I'm running a linux box at maximum resolution on the same monitor so it should work.

Erik

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Answer 3

kevinnnnnnn Author

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Nov 19, 2010 10:14 AM in response to erikstarck

Thanks for letting me know about the d-DVI cable! Even though it gets awful reviews, it was on my to-try list... You saved me $99 🙂.

Also glad to hear you tried different MBP15". I guess that between the two of us, we've tried more or less all possible configurations?

Have you been able to talk to anyone knowledgeable at Apple? I've apparently exceeded my 90 day grace period for support but will still try to call (not paying though). The Apple store in my city is awful; there's another Mac store that's good, but I doubt they'll be able to help me any more than they already have. (I suppose I could take in the monitor and ask them if they can run it somehow?)

Let me know if you find any sort of solution! It's encouraging that it works on linux.

Kevin

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Answer 4

BSteely

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Nov 21, 2010 9:04 AM in response to kevinnnnnnn

Can you describe what you mean by flickering a little better? Flickering can mean a lot of things. For example, some people that didn't know their MBP had an ambient light sensor said they noticed "flickering" in their screen, which meant in this case the full screen brightness was modulating up and down slightly because the light sensor was detecting differences in the amount of room light.

There have been other cases where people's whole screen would blink out to full blackness for a brief period, like a fraction of a second, and then come right back on. That was also called "flickering". So a better description would be helpful.

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Answer 5

kevinnnnnnn Author

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Nov 22, 2010 4:40 PM in response to BSteely

Hi BSteely,

Thanks for taking interest in our problem. I've posted some material here :

http://picasaweb.google.com/kevinjorissenpdx/ComputerProblems20101008?authkey=Gv1sRgCPad7e7M3qas-QE#

First picture: monitor settings as recognized by 2010 mbp 13" (notice PCI)
Second picture: monitor settings as recognized by 2010 mbp 15" (notice PCIexpress)
Movie: I connect the U2711 monitor to my mbp15 and it flickers; then I connect it to the mbp13 and it looks great. (quicktime .mov format)

All of this at native resolution (2560x1440) using a minidisplayport-to-displayport cable.

If you have further requests, I can take more pictures/movies in a few days (I'm away from home right now).

I welcome any ideas and suggestions!

Thanks very much to anyone reading this,

Kevin

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Answer 6

BSteely

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Nov 22, 2010 10:40 PM in response to kevinnnnnnn

OK, now I see what flickering means in this case. Kind of a long shot, but does having the power adapter disconnected from the Mac make any difference?

Also, does in make a difference if you switch to the Intel graphics processor instead of the 330M?

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Answer 7

kevinnnnnnn Author

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Nov 23, 2010 12:46 PM in response to BSteely

Thanks for writing again and for offering suggestions.

I've tried all the combinations (power/battery and 330m/intel) and none work. There has been some variation in the amount of flickering but it never stopped being annoying. I'll record these things over the next days (might as well document the issue properly) but don't expect to see more than variations in the amount of flickering.

Also, at 1920x1080 resolution, everything works great, and I can play bluray on the external monitor even while the laptop is on battery. (Well, the macbook always runs out of steam after a while, whether on power or on laptop, but that is to be expected given the huge amounts of data involved - too bad we can't get more vram without choosing the i7.)

(I have also tried some other things like making sure wall sockets aren't shared, no other devices are causing interference, etc. Someone has suggested I try a shorter cable. However, the fact that the MBP13" had no problems more or less rules out all external factors.)

As an aside, I wonder what the best way might be to inform apple's customer service? From dealing with other companies (no apple experience here) I rather dread the challenge of explaining all this to half a dozen clueless cs people in the hope of reaching someone with the necessary technical skills. Of course, it'd be even better if we could solve it here!

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Answer 8

Nov 30, 2010 10:59 AM in response to kevinnnnnnn

Hi,

Did you ever get this resolved? I just took delivery of a U2711 yesterday and am using it with my late '09 MBP 17. I noticed a flicker too when I first plugged it in when the notebook was on, but after I rebooted the MBP for another reason, I didn't notice any flicker all evening and it displayed it's native resolution fine while I had the MBP at 1920x1080.

Ken

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Answer 9

Dec 2, 2010 5:52 PM in response to KenOnBass

This (http://learntoduck.com/techsupport/dual-link-dvi-adapter-macbook-pro) fixed it for me. Woohoo!

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Answer 10

kevinnnnnnn Author

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Dec 6, 2010 7:19 PM in response to KenOnBass

Hi,

thanks very much for taking an interest and sharing your experiences. I'm glad your problem seems to have been resolved.

For me, none of the tricks you mention really solve the problem. As far as I understand, all of them come down to forcing the macbook pro to use the nvidia graphics (instead of integrated graphics) to run the monitor. When I do this, the amount of flickering is reduced dramatically, but it's still there - instead of constant flickers, I get them usually a couple times a minute, sometimes a few minutes in between. While that's an improvement, it's still very annoying, and distracts from doing work or watching movies.

Again, the MPB 13 doesn't have this problem in any circumstance.

I've posted a little video illustrating this: http://picasaweb.google.com/kevinjorissenpdx/ComputerProblems20101008?authkey=Gv1sRgCPad7e7M3qas-QE# and choose the last file.

You'll see the screen flicker like crazy, then I press shift-control-eject, which puts the screen to sleep, then I wake it up again - the mbp now knows it has to be on nvidia just as after you rebooted - and in the remaining minute or so, you can see it flicker twice (this is boring to wait for ;)), of course it did it again right after I switched off the camera 🙂. This is a 'best case' ; usually, the disturbances come every 15-20 seconds. I don't know why it varies.

if BSteely or anyone else has a way of submitting my reports to Apple, please go ahead. I'd like to finally get my monitor working right ...

(As an aside, I've noticed that 'Spaces' (with 4 desktops enabled, as is standard) and the external monitor don't work together smoothly & seem to get confused.)

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Answer 11

Dec 7, 2010 12:17 PM in response to kevinnnnnnn

Sorry that didn't work for you. I changed the power management settings to Graphic performance and it worked fine with two different U2711 monitors. Did you check to see if the power management changes stayed in place or did they revert back to the factory setting? Yes, you want it to run off the PCIe. As a next step, I guess I'd take it to the Mac Store and try it with an ACD 27 and see if the same thing happens.

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Answer 12

kevinnnnnnn Author

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Dec 8, 2010 7:27 PM in response to KenOnBass

Hi Ken,

I have taken the MBP to the store and hooked it up to an ACD - no problems at all, worked perfectly. Thanks for the suggestion though.

cheers,

Kevin

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Answer 13

kevinnnnnnn Author

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Dec 13, 2010 8:42 PM in response to kevinnnnnnn

can anyone help?

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Answer 14

TheDuder

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Dec 16, 2010 6:17 AM in response to kevinnnnnnn

I watched the flicker video above and mine does -not- do that.

I have been using my MBP 15" (latest version) with the U2711 for ~5 months at full resolution using a mini-Displayport to Displayport cable (no adapter).

Starting this morning however, after a freeze and hard reboot (holding Power button), the MBP no longer sees the U2711. I tried resetting PRAM and SMC but these didn't correct it. Doing Command+F2 makes the monitor turn the LEDs blue for a bit, but then it re-enters powersave mode.

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Answer 15

Dec 17, 2010 12:05 AM in response to kevinnnnnnn

I am having the same issue. I upgraded prior to a major show my company had. I work for an Audio Visual company. Worst week apple wise.

I had my MBP 15" 6.2 Core i7, as well as 2 17" MBP Core i5s rented from VER. The rented MBPs were running PlaybackPro Plus. I had both third party and normal Apple minidisplay port to VGA adapters. Every single time a computer went to sleep, which didn't happen often being it was a show. They were only put to sleep at night the first night. Anyway, everytime the woke up from sleep they would not detect the external monitor.

This system was connected to a Barco Screen Pro 2 system as well as an older Folsom 1402 system. We also tested it with a normal monitor, no luck. We also had issue with one of the MBPs which kept crashing. Unrelated, however since it failed I would have to switch to my MBP right away, but because of this very annoying issue I would have to restart with the monitor or video router connected and then it would detect the external display. If it came unplugged at any point from the mini display port, all was lost and I would have to restart again.

All of these machines were running 10.6.5, I run very video intensive stuff for work, so I know for a fact this used to work perfectly in 10.6.4 but not in .5.

Please note that no matter what the settings were set to Extended, Single, Clone view, or even forcing Nvidia card to be used with gfx card status, the external display would not work unless the machine was restarted.

Also I should note that in 10.6.4 I randomly had an issue where if I would wake from sleep with an external monitor attatched, my main laptop's display would not come back from sleep and my desktop would be on my external monitor. I woud then have to hit "Detect Displays" in System Preferences to correct the issue and then everything would go back to normal in extended desktop mode.

Hope this helps!

Message was edited by: cannotdraw

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