Aspect ratio weird

Try switching the settings on your TV. It's likely stretching the 4:3 image to fit your TV screen. Hopefully that helps.

Message was edited by: vazandrew

Hi all,

Having the same issue here. Just ripped a 4:3 TV Series. Displays correct in iTunes, but the Apple TV (2nd) squeezes the image (making it narrower). I have the TV at 16:9, but different settings don't help.

For what it's worth: I now use Subler and set the aspect ratio to 16:9. This blows up the image on apple TV and stretches it in iTunes, but at least it now displays ful screen and in correct aspect ratio on the Apple TV (TV on 16:9).

Anyone has a better solution?

Zephyr_blues wrote:
Having the same issue here. Just ripped a 4:3 TV Series. Displays correct in iTunes, but the Apple TV (2nd) squeezes the image (making it narrower). I have the TV at 16:9, but different settings don't help.

what do you mean "squeezing"? do you mean it is actually showing it correctly by having black bars left and right? if so then that is displaying it correctly.

For what it's worth: I now use Subler and set the aspect ratio to 16:9. This blows up the image on apple TV and stretches it in iTunes, but at least it now displays ful screen and in correct aspect ratio on the Apple TV (TV on 16:9).

what you are doing is stretching the resolution which is actually the wrong thing to do.
view it in the correct aspect ratio with means 4:3.

Hi Chenks,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Chenks wrote:

Zephyr_blues wrote:
Having the same issue here. Just ripped a 4:3 TV Series. Displays correct in iTunes, but the Apple TV (2nd) squeezes the image (making it narrower). I have the TV at 16:9, but different settings don't help.

what do you mean "squeezing"? do you mean it is actually showing it correctly by having black bars left and right? if so then that is displaying it correctly.

The image is actually narrower then it should be, day 4:3.5 or so... Not much, but just enough to be annoying.

For what it's worth: I now use Subler and set the aspect ratio to 16:9. This blows up the image on apple TV and stretches it in iTunes, but at least it now displays ful screen and in correct aspect ratio on the Apple TV (TV on 16:9).

what you are doing is stretching the resolution which is actually the wrong thing to do.
view it in the correct aspect ratio with means 4:3.

Guess I got lucky, first shot at it made it appear just right... or am I missing something? Original aspect ratio in Subler was at 17:16 or something like that... I thought that was weird. Why is 4:3 not the right aspect ratio?

Hi there, got a new apple TV 2nd gen, got it all going and tried watching one of my movies and the aspect ration is weird. It is a 4:3 ratio, the tv is on 4:3 mode and it open up stretched... Having the same issue here. Just ripped a 4:3 TV Series. Displays correct in iTunes, but the Apple TV (2nd) squeezes the image (making it narrower)

The basic strategy here is to learn if the problem in in your video file or the method in which you are viewing the file. For those who don't already know, QT 7 based applications (like QT 7, GarageBand, and the iTunes built-in player) rely on the "Current Size" property embedded in the file to determine the display size/aspect ratio. "New" QT technology applications (like iMovie '08/'09/'11, QT Player X, and TV) rely on the Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) property embedded in file to determine the display dimensions/aspect ratio.

Thus, if a video plays correctly in QT X or your TV2 device but displays incorrectly in the QT 7 and/or iTunes players, then the current size setting was incorrectly set during your encode or modified post encoding. Luckily, if you have QT 7 Pro, this is easily fixed so that the file will play correctly in all Apple QT players. Simply use QT 7 Pro to correct the "Current Size" display dimensions and save the file.

On the other hand, if the file plays correctly in the QT 7 and/or the iTunes player but plays incorrectly in the QT X player and/or on the TV device, then the file was incorrectly set for the encode or lost during post encode editing. Unfortunately, this is not as easily fixed since the data must now be re-encoded to re-set the PAR setting.

Lastly, if the file plays correctly in all players but displays incorrectly only your TV/HDV/Monitor, then your problem is in the display aspect settings for your screen device.

Original aspect ratio in Subler was at 17:16 or something like that...

This is not a standard aspect ratio (i.e., 17:16 = 1.06:1) but could be a valid custom aspect ratio for content created for a special purpose.

Why is 4:3 not the right aspect ratio?

4:3 = 1.33:1 (common analog TV aspect ratio). Other common aspect ratios include 1.66:1 (a lot of older Disney movies use this), 16:9 (1.78:1), 1.85:1, 2.35:1, and 2.40:1 content.

The image is actually narrower then it should be, day 4:3.5 or so... Not much, but just enough to be annoying.

If by this you are saying the display is wider than 4:3 (1.33:1) but narrower than 16:9 (1.78:1), then it is most likely a 15:9 (1.66:1) aspect ratio which was somewhat common a few decades ago.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for a clear answer, I think I'm learning how this stuff works.

Just to be sure, I am ripping a TV show in Handbrake. If I go to the Picture Settings - Size dialogue, It sais:
Source: 720x576, Output: 720x576, Anamorphic: 768x576
Anamorphic here is the "Current size" iTunes uses. If Apple TV now shows the wrong aspect ratio,I could set the size to custom, loose the keep aspect and set PAR to 765:720, right? In other words, the PAR is the 'anamorphic ratio'.

So, this raises (at least) 2 questions:
Why would Handbrake detect some DVD 'wrongly' and others ok?
Why would I set Handbrake to 'loose' anamorphic, and not use strict and override when it got something wrong?

Thanks in advance!

The original aspect ration was 16:15...

Just to be sure, I am ripping a TV show in Handbrake. If I go to the Picture Settings - Size dialogue, It sais: Source: 720x576, Output: 720x576, Anamorphic: 768x576... Anamorphic here is the "Current size" iTunes uses. If Apple TV now shows the wrong aspect ratio, I could set the size to custom, loose the keep aspect and set PAR to 765:720, right? In other words, the PAR is the 'anamorphic ratio'.

All PAL DVDs/DV content encoded to 720x576 whether the content is 4:3 (768x576) or 16:9 (1024x576). Depending on your work flow, the PAR property may or may not be present. If not present, then HandBrake (iMovie '08, '09, '11, QT X, etc.) will assume the content is 4:3 whether the original source content was 16:9 or 4:3 and set the output accordingly. (I.e., if a PAR setting is not present, the apps default to a 4:3 aspect ratio.)

"Output: 720x576, Anamorphic:" 768x576 means the encoder will encode the data using a 720x576 matrix but display the content at 768x576 (scaled to properly fit your display device for the HDMI negotiated display dimensions). That is, the 720 encode matrix width will be "scaled" to a 768 display width before passing/scaling the content for your display device. If your source content was really 4:3, then all is okay. However, if the source content was really 16;9 but "lost" the original PAR setting somehow, then you must manually correct the problem.

Yes, switch the "Anamorphic" pop-up to "Custom." Typical settings for 16:9 content which has lost its original PAR setting would be as follows:
Width: 720
Height: 576
Display Width: 1024
HandBrake will calculate the proper PAR setting to embed in the target file for use by QT X and the TV device and set the "Current Size" properties to your "Display Width" and "PAR Height" settings for QT 7 and iTunes players. To check the settings, run a "Live Preview" to see what the output will look like in the different types of players.

Why would Handbrake detect some DVD 'wrongly' and others ok?

Difficult to answer. Not knowing your work flow, I can't tell if the PAR setting was somehow lost or if the source DVD is actually the problem and HandBrake can't locate the real data.

Why would I set Handbrake to 'loose' anamorphic, and not use strict and override when it got something wrong?

"There are three different ways of doing anamorphic in HandBrake: strictly, loosely, and custom. In strict mode, the full resolution of the DVD is preserved exactly. As a result, the picture dimensions will be locked and the "Keep aspect ratio" box will be dimmed out. Loose mode will tweak the dimensions slightly so they divide evenly by 16, and allows scaling the width of the stored video. Custom mode is just that -- all settings are configurable by the user. When it is enabled, extra controls appear in the inspector."--Manual

The original aspect ration was 16:15...

This is the PAR ratio--not the display aspect ratio. In the case of your 720x576 source content, if it was really 4:3, then 16:15 (1.0666667:1) is the "factor" used to properly display the content. That is...

16:15::768:720 (16 is to 15 as 768 is to 720) or more simply stated 1.0666667 x 720 = 768. (I.e, this is the pixel aspect ratio or multiplier used to scale the 720x576 encode matrix to display as a 768x576 display matrix.)

When I refer to the display aspect ratio, I am referring to the ratio of the original "display" width of your source content to the original "display" height of that content. In "anamorphic" terms, the DVD content was originally 4:3, 16:9, letterboxed in 4:3, or pillared in 16:9. So basically if cropping is turned off, your DVD content is either 4:3 or 16:9. Since you say the 4:3 aspect ratio was not the correct, that only leaves the 16:9 aspect for which I have previously given you the settings which applies to most PAL standard countries.

FOLLOW-UP:

For what it's worth: I now use Subler and set the aspect ratio to 16:9.

Had previously downloaded an earlier version of Subler, but never really used it as I am not really interested in sub-titles, the limited re-muxiing of data since all of my files are MPEG-4/H.264 targeted to begin with and have all desired data included during encode, and primarily use iTunes as a one-stop app for annotations and management. However, based on your comments, I downloaded a copy of the current version and took another look. It appears this utility does have one very useful function which applies to my particular work flow--correcting display problems for both "old technology" (e.g., QT 7 based) and "new technology" (e.g., QT X, iMovie, TV) player apps. That is, it is capable of correcting/re-setting the both the "Current Size" property (without having to buy QT 7 Pro) and the PAR value (without having to re-compress the data).

This blows up the image on apple TV and stretches it in iTunes, but at least it now displays ful screen and in correct aspect ratio on the Apple TV (TV on 16:9).

Sounds as though you may be applying incorrect setting in Subler. For those having similar problems and who have been unable to find readily available user information, here is a quick recap:

"Normal Size:" entry
On a Leopard based system these will normally read "0 x 0" while on a Snow Leopard System they will read the original "encode matrix dimensions. (e.g., "720 x 576")

"Scaled Size:" entry:
On both Lepard and Snow Leopard systems, this should reflect the "Current Size:" property at which the file will display in the QT 7, GarageBand, iTunes, and similar "old technology" players. If your files play with an incorrect display aspect ratio in these applications, enter the correct dimensions at which you want your files displayed.

"Aspect Ratio" entry
On a Leopard based system this will probably read "0 x 0" while on a Snow Leopard based system, this will read the current PAR ("display pixel width" to "encode pixel width") ratio. For example on a Snow Leopard system, if the Normal Size is "720 x 576" and the Scaled Size is also "720 x 576," then the "Aspect Ratio" will read "1 x 1" and the file (if sourced from DVD or DV content) will display incorrectly in all players. (I.e., the typically occurs when new video users set target encode dimension settings to to match the source file but neglect the PAR value normally associated with these compression formats.)

To fix the above problem for all players, the "Subler" user should enter the "width" and "height" he or she wishes the file to display at in old technology" players as the "Scaled Size" entry. (E.g., for the above example, enter "768 x 576" as the "Scaled Size" entry for 4:3 display or "1024 x 576" for 16:9 display.) To correct the file display for "new technology" players, enter the PAR (display pixel width to encode pixel width) values. Since "Subler" only allows whole number entries here, the simplest way to to enter these values is to just enter the width (in pixels) of the display matrix and the width (in pixels) of the encode matrix. (E.g., for a 4:3 display use "768 x 720" or for a 16:9 display use "1024 x 720" to let Subler calculate and embed the required value.) For those who prefer smaller number entries, you can reduce the PAR entry numbers by their greatest common multiple equivalents. (E.g., values of "48 x 45" (4:3) and "64 x 45" (16:9) will give the same results as the "768 x 720" and "1024 x 720" values suggested above.)

Hi there, got a new apple TV 2nd gen, got it all going and tried watching one of my movies and the aspect ration is weird. It is a 4:3 ratio, the tv is on 4:3 mode and it open up stretched. Weird, So I came up to my computer, the file okays fine in itunes, found the source file and open with quicktime, plays fine. Any clue what Apple TV would be doing that

Since you indicate the file plays correctly in iTunes, the "Current Size" property is correctly set. Since a correctly encoded file should play correctly via the TV in either the "full/normal" and "4:3" dedicated aspect modes (on most current digital TV models), it is likely the file was encoded with an incorrect PAR value. While the iTunes player uses the "Current Size" property to set the display dimensions/aspect ratio, the TV device applies the PAR value to scale the original encode width ("Normal Size") of your files to determine the display aspect ratio which is then scaled by your TV to fit the screen in the mode you have selected. If this is your actual problem, then you can try using Subler (as described above) to fix this problem.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for your persistence. By now I really got it. Somehow, a long time ago, the idea set in my mind that the current size and par were the same ratio, as it would be in a square matrix. So I had current size set at 768x576 and the par as 4:3.

Setting things as you suggested in Subler made it work and see my miscalculation.

I'm glad I pointed you at the new Subler in the process...

Maarten.

I'm glad I pointed you at the new Subler in the process...

So am I. Learning about these unadvertised capabilities was well worth the effort and I now looking into some of the other features of this utility. Since I am in the process of re-tagging content which was created for the 5th Generation iPod and TV1 devices which display differently with TV2, and since this process can be applied to files already managed by iTunes, it now appears I may well have additional use for Subler. Again, thanks go to you for pointing out the app.