eSata express card. - opinions wanted

Question

eSata express card. - opinions wanted

I've got a Lacie 1.5Terabyte HD and a Lacie eSata express card. I have created 2 partitions on HD, one for installing MAc OS X and the other one for data. Inserted Mac OS X disk that came with Mac, restarted Mac, boot up fine but the Lacie drive is not shown in the list of drives I can choose from to install the OS on. Am I correct if I say that is because the Express Card needs its driver to function ? Connected the drive with fire wire and installed the OS, connected drive to eSata card again. When I go to preferences, I can select the Lacie drive to start up from but the computer do not start up from it, it start up from internal HD, Am I correct if I say it is because the eSate express card is only seen by the Mac after the driver is loaded ?

2007 Mac Pro 2 x 2.66 XEON, 2.8 Duel Core, 2009 17" MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.4), 500Gig Time Capsual

Posted on Nov 28, 2010 11:25 AM

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Answer 1

Nov 29, 2010 5:23 PM in response to Freddie Herbst

Did you wanna install MAc OS X disc onto one of your partitions? If so you need to insert the MAc OS X disc restart your computer and hold down "C", this will boot off of the install disc. then when you get to the Mac OS X installer screen you should be able to select one of your partitions to install Mac OS on, considering you partitioned your drive correctly...
Your drive via eSata may not be available because many of the Sata cards on the market will not mount properly until you boot into your OS. I myself am looking for a decent Express card that actually works. Almost all of the express cards that I have tried have caused a kernel panic on my system every time! Try doing the install of the Mac OS booted to firewire if all else fails

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Answer 2

Dec 15, 2010 9:54 AM in response to dubprocess

I have created 2 partitions on drive and installed OS X successfully With fire wire I can boot from the drive, but not with eSata, as I said in my post I think it is because the driver of the card needs to be loaded first before the OS can see the drive. MY card worked fine for quite a while but yesterday for the first time when I did a shut down I got I kernel panic. In the menu bar there is an icon for the express card with an option to switch it of, it use to work fine all the time, yesterday I was in iTunes and when I selected the option to turn the card off I got a kernel panic again. WHen i close all apps. I can turn the card of fine.

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Answer 3

Dec 15, 2010 10:08 AM in response to Freddie Herbst

Got this when I shut the card off while in iTunes :

Interval Since Last Panic Report: 884281 sec
Panics Since Last Report: 5
Anonymous UUID: 4D3C2F74-EB9D-4CF3-BE39-C54C41DBEA4D

Wed Dec 15 20:03:20 2010
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x2aab55): Kernel trap at 0x002993d6, type 14=page fault, registers:
CR0: 0x8001003b, CR2: 0x00000008, CR3: 0x00100000, CR4: 0x00000660
EAX: 0x00000000, EBX: 0x088e6000, ECX: 0x0096973a, EDX: 0x00000000
CR2: 0x00000008, EBP: 0x58b6bee8, ESI: 0x00000001, EDI: 0x0000415e
EFL: 0x00010206, EIP: 0x002993d6, CS: 0x00000008, DS: 0x58b60010
Error code: 0x00000000

Backtrace (CPU 0), Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
0x58b6bd08 : 0x21b50c (0x5d42fc 0x58b6bd3c 0x223974 0x0)
0x58b6bd58 : 0x2aab55 (0x59616c 0x2993d6 0xe 0x596336)
0x58b6be38 : 0x2a09a8 (0x58b6be50 0x0 0x58b6bee8 0x2993d6)
0x58b6be48 : 0x2993d6 (0xe 0x48 0x10 0x10)
0x58b6bee8 : 0x969752 (0x0 0x87fc000 0x58b6bf68 0x227259)
0x58b6bf08 : 0x54c4db (0x88e6000 0x88e2f00 0x1 0x29f54e)
0x58b6bf58 : 0x54b50c (0x88e2f00 0x886191c 0x58b6bf88 0x2272c4)
0x58b6bf88 : 0x54b966 (0x88f5880 0x8861900 0x0 0x0)
0x58b6bfc8 : 0x2a06cc (0x88f5880 0x0 0x2a06db 0x88033d4)
Kernel Extensions in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.SiliconImage.driver.Si3132(1.2.3)@0x967000->0x97afff
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOSCSIParallelFamily(2.0.1)@0x94d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.6)@0x956000

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task

Mac OS version:
10H574

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 10.5.0: Fri Nov 5 23:20:39 PDT 2010; root:xnu-1504.9.17~1/RELEASE_I386
System model name: MacBookPro5,2 (Mac-F2268EC8)

System uptime in nanoseconds: 104372700576
unloaded kexts:
(none)
loaded kexts:
com.deepseasoftware.driver.CDSDAudioCaptureSupport 1.2.1
com.roxio.BluRaySupport 1.1.3
com.SiliconImage.driver.Si3132 1.2.3
at.obdev.nke.LittleSnitch 2.2.05
com.apple.driver.AppleHWSensor 1.9.3d0
com.apple.filesystems.autofs 2.1
Model: MacBookPro5,2, BootROM MBP52.008E.B05, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.8 GHz, 4 GB, SMC 1.42f4
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT, PCIe, 512 MB
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, PCI, 256 MB
Memory Module: global_name
AirPort: spairport wireless_card_type_airportextreme (0x14E4, 0x8D), Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (5.10.131.36.1)
Bluetooth: Version 2.3.8f7, 2 service, 19 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
Network Service: AirPort, AirPort, en1
PCI Card: sppci expresscardname, sppci_othermassstorage, ExpressCard
Serial ATA Device: FUJITSU MJA2500BH FFS G1, 465.76 GB
Serial ATA Device: MATSHITADVD-R UJ-868
SCSI Device: SCSI Target Device @ 0
USB Device: Built-in iSight, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8507, 0x24400000
USB Device: Hub, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x9136, 0x26200000
USB Device: CTH-661, 0x056a (WACOM Co., Ltd.), 0x00d3, 0x26230000
USB Device: CanoScan, 0x04a9 (Canon Inc.), 0x2220, 0x26220000
USB Device: Hub, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x9137, 0x26240000
USB Device: Display iSight, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8508, 0x26242000
USB Device: Apple LED Cinema Display, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x9236, 0x26243000
USB Device: Display Audio, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x2912, 0x26241000
USB Device: Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x0237, 0x04600000
USB Device: IR Receiver, 0x05ac (Apple Inc.), 0x8242, 0x04500000
USB Device: BCM2046A, 0x0a5c (Broadcom Corp.), 0x2046, 0x06100000

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Answer 4

T1mur

Level 1

55 points

Dec 15, 2010 3:29 PM in response to Freddie Herbst

1) Only JMicron chipset based cards can be booted from.

2) There is a more current SIL driver out for your card (1.2.5)

3) 2008/09 Unibody Macbook Pros suffer from an epidemic failure of their ExpressCard slot. You will not find any eSATA card using any of the three available chipsets that will work fully reliable in these Macs.

Blame Apple. I'm onto this for two years now and will get a 2010 MBP replacement soon. According to Other World Computing (OWC) the 2010 models should work (they just put some BIG red crosses over all 2008/09 MBP to mark them incompatible). Once I get the 2010 one I will test it and post results.

I will also publish my case number once this is through.

Message was edited by: T1mur

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Answer 5

Dec 15, 2010 8:34 PM in response to T1mur

Must say under normal use, I do not have a problem with my card, as long as i do not turn it off when in iTunes I am fine, which I do not have to do.

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Answer 6

T1mur

Level 1

55 points

Dec 16, 2010 1:31 AM in response to Freddie Herbst

Problem is that cards based on all three chip-sets can produce errors during normal operation, most likely with JMicron 360, then JMicron 362 based cards. The SIL and the Marvell are less likely to suffer, but it still happens.

If you are only copying some files from time to time there is a good chance that you don't get into troubles, or just don't recognize it. I.e. you can do a full clone backup via Disk Utility without any error message, but when you verify the disc afterwards it can be that the cloned destination partition is broken beyond repair (other than format).

But that's only half of the story. All ExpressCard cards I tested (including Firewire and audio) suffer from grounding problems of the Macbook Pro. The combination of 2-prong and 3-prong plugs that your external devices use play a critical part here.

It may easily and reproducibly happen that you only touch ⚠ the Mac with the plug of an external display or powered ⚠ USB hub and instantly any eSATA data transfer is broken, which in turn can leads to Kernel Panics (Spotlight and Time Machine) or downright freezing of the whole Mac. In the latter case you don't even get any message after restarting the computer.

It took 22 months of contending with Apple's phone support until finally an Apple Store opened in our town (only 4 of them in all of Germany). After a short demonstration, exchanging of log files and test-scripts and another few weeks at the Store the issues were verified and the Genius had to acknowledge that a Logic Board change does not help (I had 2 different Macbook Pros, each with an original and a changed Logic Board).

I informed both OWC and Sonnet (anyone knows how to contact LaCie without registering a product?) about their eSATA cards being unusable in the 2008/09 Macbook Pros. They both wait for my experience with the 2010 ones (I'm waiting for weeks to get one, since the first got stolen on its transport from China to my Apple Store).

In all the 2 years no one at Apple took the time to thoroughly test the ExpressCard slot for such issues except for my Genius Bar who had no other choice once I put a frozen Mac on their counter (I came to the store with the running frozen Mac and even reproduced the freezing on their counter).

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Answer 7

Dec 16, 2010 2:27 AM in response to T1mur

My experience so far, only get a kernel panic when I power the express card off when in certain apps. All the stuff I copied to the drive connected to the express card works fine, never had a kernel panic except those times I powered the card off when I was in an app.

Message was edited by: Freddie Herbst

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Answer 8

Dec 16, 2010 2:52 AM in response to Freddie Herbst

Does not seem if I got any problem when reading from and writing to my drive connected to the express card. Everything I write to it I can read back without any problem. Just recorded some stuff with a Sony Handy Cam, connected cam to Mac's USB port, copied video to drive connected to express card and played video back with out any problem.

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Answer 9

T1mur

Level 1

55 points

Dec 16, 2010 8:42 AM in response to Freddie Herbst

If the issues were easy to reproduce it wouldn't have taken 22 months to get Apple to verify/acknowledge them. I can do it within seconds/minutes with a special script.

As long as you don't experience problems everything is fine for you. I will go though with this until no more errors occur on my or other people's units (there are whole web-pages and threads about eSATA/ExpressCard issues with Unibody Macs).

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Answer 10

Dec 19, 2010 4:57 AM in response to T1mur

Does this mean that the express card is totally useless or can it be used ?

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Answer 11

T1mur

Level 1

55 points

Dec 19, 2010 12:27 PM in response to Freddie Herbst

It can be used for audio interfaces mostly and for moving a couple GB in files. But for reliable data-transfer it's useless (plus it can cause sporadic Kernel Panics and system freezes).

Don't attach (as in even touch) any powered external devices while doing eSATA transfers. Even watch out about touching the Mac with your hands near the ExpressCard port.

Else even the 200 Euro expensive Marvell based Sonnet Tempo Pro may produce errors like this one: "Sep 9 21:21:17 Timurs-MacBook-Pro kernel[0]: SonnetSATA::mv (ERROR) 56080 1: Unrecoverable HW error detected."

It's a rather ugly mess, but with Apple categorizing the ExpressCard slot as "SD card" even internally it's no surprise they don't care.

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Answer 12

Dec 19, 2010 1:06 PM in response to T1mur

I do not really need the express slot, it is just sad to pay allot of money for something and after almost a year discover that Apple stuffed up again. I do not mind to pay for a quality product but I expect that every feature of the product should work, if I use it or not. I have not have a single problem until know.

Do you perhaps know if cards like this will work :

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-mobile.php

Maybe it is time to ditch Apple and buy products that work out of the box and do not always needs firmware updates to fix something.

Thanks for the info.

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Answer 13

Dec 19, 2010 2:25 PM in response to Freddie Herbst

A bit off topic.

The following does not make sence ( from kernel panic log ) :

Serial ATA Device: FUJITSU MJA2500BH FFS G1, 465.76 GB
Serial ATA Device: MATSHITADVD-R UJ-868
SCSI Device: SCSI Target Device @ 0

As you can see there are only 2 Serial ATA devices, shouldn't there be 3, as my external hard drive is conncted to a serial ATA card ?
I do not have any SCSI devices though the Log shows I do, seems if the hard drive connected to the Serial ATA card is seen as a SCSI drive not a SATA drive.

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Answer 14

T1mur

Level 1

55 points

Dec 19, 2010 4:47 PM in response to Freddie Herbst

Concerning the Symphony I can at least tell you that I was not able to make the RME HDSPe + Multiface 2 crash, freeze or lose contact with its driver regardless of how hard I tried. But some people on the RME forum did report issues some months ago.

One problem that did occur was that the Firmware flash utility had a failure rate of around 50%, which did not happen with the pre Unibody Macs. RME changed the utility since then (in effect slowed it down to half), which helped.

What will very likely happen with the Symphony as much as with the HDSPe is that you will get audio crackling if you connect/touch any other external port of the Mac with powered devices while audio is playing.

http://img193.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101116at145.png/

Concerning your SATA/SCSI riddle. The SATA controller driver most likely registers itself as SCSI device. It's most likely a SIL based card whose drivers does that. It's removeable, but not bootable, no S.M.A.R.T. and no temperatures.

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Answer 15

Dec 19, 2010 6:08 PM in response to T1mur

Thank you for all the info.

Frddie

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