Creative ZEN Vision:M or 5th Generation iPOD Video ?

I would if not for two things:

It's at least twice as thick as the 30GB iPodv (saw the comparison)

It's all plastic though slick but as not as slick as iPodv

Seems to me like you haven't done any research on the Vision:M.

First, the price...
The 30 GB iPod is $299. The 30 GB Vision:M is $329.

Second, the width...
Look at this! It's about 2x thicker!

Third, it's not even shipping yet.

So... choices choices choices...

Personally, I'm going to stick with my 60 GB 5G iPod. I get 20 hours of audio playback, a little over 3 hours of video, and can charge it in about 4 hours via USB (compare that to 6.5 hours charging time for the Vision:M). And, here's the crazy part, the 60 GB iPod is still thinner than the 30 GB Vision:M.

Here's some links for your perusal:
Vision:M specs
iPod specs
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000753071586/
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000157071380/

Let me say it again:
The Zen Vision:M ISN'T SHIPPING.

You want to play the number of songs game? OK.

Creative uses the following to count a song:
"Based on 4 minutes per song at 64kbps WMA encoding"

Apple uses the following to count a song:
"4 minutes per song and 128-Kbps AAC encoding"

Now, just for fun, I challenge you to encode the same song as a 64kbps WMA file, and as a 128kbps AAC file. Then sit down and decide which one you'd rather listen to.

Edit: After thinking about this, I bet they base their battery life numbers off of playing those 64kbps WMA-encoded files (which will obviously take less processing power to decode, and allow the player to cache more, than the 128kbps AAC files that Apple bases its battery life numbers off of). I wonder if they do the same thing for their video playback numbers? There is a footnote on that Vision:M tech specs page that says higher bitrates will decrease battery life... hmmm....

Edit 2: It appears they base their video numbers as such: "Video claim based on video encoded at 500 kbps MPEG4-SP". I can play a little over 3 hours of MPEG-4 video encoded at 1,000 kbps (average) on my 60 GB. interesting...

Hey Jeff, you get 20 hrs playback?? Do you know if my 30GB has the same battery. Is this time shorter if watching videos??

The 30 GB 5G iPod has a smaller battery than the 60 GB iPod 5G. Play times are all listed in detail on the iPod tech specs page:

# Playback time (30GB model)

* Music playback time: Up to 14 hours when fully charged
* Photo slideshow with music viewing time: Up to 3 hours when fully charged
* Video playback time: Up to 2 hours when fully charged

# Playback time (60GB model)

* Music playback time: Up to 20 hours when fully charged
* Photo slideshow with music viewing time: Up to 4 hours when fully charged
* Video playback time: Up to 3 hours when fully charged

They both have pretty impressive battery life. Incidentally, I saw that Zen player a while back and emailed Creative to ask some questions. They said they didnt think it would EVER be available in the States. And at that point it was a 20GB model. That was some time ago, sounds like they have changed their minds. Not sure where it was available when I inquired.

Re: 4 hours playback... See my explanation about how Creative arrived at their playback times vs. how Apple arrived at theirs. If you want to listen to 64kbps WMA files, and watch 500kbps MPEG4 video, go right ahead. You could get the same result on your iPod listening to 64kbps AAC files and watching 500kbps MPEG4 video.

Re: double the songs... again, see my explanation about how Creative arrived at their 15,000 number vs. how Apple arrived at their 7,500 number (hint: 64kbps WMA files vs. 128kbps AAC files)

Re: more audio formats... yes. the Vision:M adds the ability to play WMA files (the iPod can play MP3 and WAV files)

Re: more video formats... yes. The Vision:M adds the ability to play MPEG1/2, WMV9, Motion-JPEG, and XviD.

Re: FM radio, recorder, voice recorder, yes. Points to Vision:M.

Re: iPod's batter turning red with 2 hours left to go... the battery meter is an estimate, nothing more. If it really bothers you and you can't ignore it, put a piece of black electrical tape over it. My battery meter is fairly accurate, but I've ran my iPod completely dead and charged it up completely 2x since I've bought it. Seems to have helped.

Re: scratching issue.. seems like there were a few people on those engadget posts that were complaining about their Zen (non-vision:M) scratching up pretty bad. My guess is the Vision:M will have the same problems (but that's a guess).

So, summary... If you need a FM radio/recorder, or a voice recorder, or don't want to transcode video you already have in a supported Vision:M format, or have your audio in WMA format, and are willing to deal with the extra width and cost, then the Vision:M might be for you. Be aware that Creative's battery life numbers are even more unapplicable to real-world use than Apple's are (I don't know of anyone that listens to 64kbps music anymore, and who would encode their video at 500kbps MPEG4?).

But you have to consider that for the extra $30, the Vision:M comes with an AC adapter, the ipod does not and the buy the official Apple adapter will run you an additional $30, so that is a wash. But the Vision:M has a higher color screen and has VGA output, and the other movie formats seem nice, but it doesn't sound like it's quite 'drag and drop' either, somewhat specific on Divx-encoded files. The battery life also appears to be better, but again, the Vision:M is much thicker.

Apple isn't head and shoulder above Creative now, but the Vision:M doesn't sound like an "iPod killer" either, but competition is always good.

Hopefully, the competition will drive Apple to incorporate support for more video formats in their next few Firmware updates.

And I don't think this sounds like an iPod killer, either. The only total advantage it has is the higher-quality display. The thing doesn't support a wider range of audio formats, just an alternative to AAC. It's way too thick, with only moderate benefits to battery life over the 30GB iPod (and only slightly better performance than the 60GB for video, and much less for audio). The battery results probably aren't even accurate if you play a WMA file of equivalent quality to a 128-bit AAC, which Creative didn't seem to use when determining those battery estimates.

Hi midnight
If you hadnt noticed this is a discussion board menat for TECHNICCAL questions for APPLE PRODUCTS. YJis isnt your two bit nickel dime website to speculate on which comsumer product is better than the other. If you want comparison shoping go elsewhere. PLus its stupid to sk which is beter ON an APPLE WEBSITE. These boards are not meant for gossip or shooting the poop. Go elswhere for that please. And by the way what was your technical question regarding an apple product..and not just gossip banter to shoot the breeze with.

GFF

GFF
This forum is not just for technical questions. This is from the very first paragraph of the terms of use:

"What is Apple Discussions?

Apple Discussions is a user-to-user support forum that enables anyone who uses Apple products to meet and discuss various topics, resolve issues, ask questions, get tips and advice, and more. You'll find a wealth of information about your favorite Apple hardware and software products that will help you get the most out of your purchase."

I believe midnight was trying to ask "experts" their opinion on why the apple product is better. Personally I don't see a problem with that.

I have had the Ipod Mini for over a year now. Well my daughter wants it badly so I decided to grab the Zen Micro. After being spoiled by Itunes and my lovely Ipod mini I quickly returned the Zen Micro for a full refund. I am now the proud owner of a 30 gig 5gen Ipod. I guess what I am trying to say is if you have ever owned an Ipod then you will hate the creative products. I hated the software, the hardware, the sound and even the FM receiver. I am not bashing Creative, I was really wanting the Zen to work badly. I love listening to LSU baseball games on my radio and thought that I would kill two birds with one stone getting the Zen. Oh well, hope this helps you bro. One other thing, if you get and Ipod, please do yourself a favor and purchase a nice case for it.