Triming DV files for a "clips" movie

Question

Level 1

6 points

Triming DV files for a "clips" movie

I have recently converted 100+ 6 hr VHS tape to 2hr DVD's and now have converted those to DV digital files. I have the converted MP4 files AND the DV files(which are much bigger) I now have about 200, 2 hours DV files. These are all on about 3, 2TB Firewire drives.

My goal is to just take 10-20 sec clips from these DV files and make a Movie of the family over the last 30 years..I'm imaging a 1-2 hr movie.

My question is: I how do I manage file sizes of these clips. How do Import them? DO I trim the clips in the DV file within FCE?

Any suggestion on how to handle the big files would be appreciated. Thanks so much for any advice.

iMac 24", Mac OS X (10.6.1)

Posted on Dec 28, 2010 5:19 PM

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Answer 1

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

153,003 points

Dec 28, 2010 5:55 PM in response to pwsher

You need to learn how FCE works. You import the media into FCE and you edit it.

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Answer 2

Alchroma

Level 7

23,946 points

Dec 28, 2010 5:57 PM in response to pwsher

My question is: I how do I manage file sizes of these clips. How do Import them? DO I trim the clips in >the DV file within FCE?

There really is nothing to manage if the DV files are already on your 3 2TB hard drives.
FCE is non-destructive, so all the stuff in the FCE Browser and Timeline are not transferred media files but only file paths (links) to the media already on the 3 2TB drives.

Use the Import Files function to enter the required files to the Browser.
This simply creates a link to the file/s on one of your drives.

Once a file (clip) is in the Browser, move the clip to the Viewer window.
Now is the time to enter in/out points in the Viewer.
When you edit the clip to the Timeline only the selected section between the in/out points will be added. eg. if 10 seconds of a 1 hour clip was selected only the 10 seconds will play in the Timeline.
The Timeline is where the Sequence is built and the Canvas is where you watch it. Canvas and
Timeline are pretty much one and the same.
You can repeat this process on the same clip in as many different places you wish.
When you have grabbed all the bits off that clip in the Viewer move a new clip from the Browser into the Viewer again and edit as above.

I would suggest you make sure the correct Easy Setup in FCE is selected and they match the clips you bring into the FCE Browser as a lot of transcoding seems to have been done. Try a short test FCE Project to make sure all is well before you commit countless hours into your Project.

Al

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Answer 3

pwsher Author

Level 1

6 points

Dec 28, 2010 6:10 PM in response to Alchroma

Al, Thanks very much that is exactly what I was looking for. At what point can I get rid of the DV files? After final rendering? I am in no great hurry but I do have the original DVD's and MP4 files as backup (I still don't have the guts to throw away the old VHS's yet! 😉 ) and could use that drive space for other things. Looks like I have about 4TB of space consumed by just those DV files. With the rather cheap cost of drives I guess I could just keep them since it has taken nearly a month of non-stop converting to get this far.

Again, AL...Thank you!

Wayne

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Answer 4

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

153,003 points

Dec 28, 2010 6:22 PM in response to pwsher

As you say the cost of drives really makes it fairly cost effective to just keep the media on the drives so you can access it at any time you want.

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Answer 5

Alchroma

Level 7

23,946 points

Dec 28, 2010 10:18 PM in response to pwsher

(I still don't have the guts to throw away the old VHS's yet! )

I would guard those with my life and do not even consider throwing them.

As mentioned earlier a test project would be wise to ensure a smooth workflow with existing DV files.

Al

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Answer 6

pwsher Author

Level 1

6 points

Dec 29, 2010 10:29 AM in response to Alchroma

Al,
yes, I will test soon. BY test do I have to render them? I have loaded about 5 clips of about 10-15 sec each. The sound is fine on the Viewer but just bleeps every second when I play the canvas.

But before I get into this....maybe I should permanently move the files to cheaper USB drives instead of my faster more expensive Firewire drives. When I imported about twenty 2 hr DV files they loaded almost instantaneously. I understand that these are just links but is there a reason to stay with the costlier faster drives. Since these will need to be forever linked to those drives and I imagine it will not be easy to re-aarange and move them later.
Correct?

Thanks again.
Wayne

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Answer 7

Meg The Dog

Level 6

14,076 points

Dec 29, 2010 10:56 AM in response to pwsher

Hi -
Use the firewire drives. USB drives are generally not suitable of video production.
But -
When you say you converted these file to DV, to you mean files with a .dv extension or DV/DVCPRO NTSC that has a .mov extension?

MtD

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Answer 8

pwsher Author

Level 1

6 points

Dec 29, 2010 11:27 AM in response to Meg The Dog

I have many copies of every thing:

1. original VHS or 8mm tapes.

2. These were converted to DVD with a combo VHS to DVD burner. (VOB files)

3. These were converted to xxx.mp4 and xxx.MOV using handbrake and iSkysoft DVD Ripper

4. These were converted to .dv files using iSKysoft iMedia Converter.

I have all of these files.

The .mov and mp4 files are about 5GB for 2 hours.
The .dv files of the same file are about 30 GB for 2 hours.

Does this sound reasonable. While each conversion makes it's physical size smaller and smaller, my collection of files is growing 😉

Thank God for cheap external hard drives!!

Wayne

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Answer 9

Meg The Dog

Level 6

14,076 points

Dec 29, 2010 11:36 AM in response to pwsher

The .mp4 and the .dv files are not useable directly in FCE.

The .mov will depend on what codec was used (.mov is a container - it's like saying this video is in a cardboard box, as opposed to a wooden crate or a plastic shipping container) but does not describe the contents. To find the codec (unless you already know it) -

Open one of the .mov files in Quicktime Player 7 and type command + I and see what it says for Format.

MtD

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Answer 10

pwsher Author

Level 1

6 points

Dec 29, 2010 11:59 AM in response to Meg The Dog

Thanks for your patience with a newbie in this app.

The .mov and mp4 files say they are H.264, AAC

The dv files...I tried to do the same thing and the beach ball is still spinning after 5 minutes...says creating preview file.

I used a conversion program that was supposed to convert H.264 files to a dv file because I read FCE would only accept the camcorder format and DV files.....

The dv files appear to import fine. Iam still puzzled by the sound problem I mentioned above though.

Message was edited by: pwsher

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Answer 11

Meg The Dog

Level 6

14,076 points

Dec 29, 2010 12:30 PM in response to pwsher

There is a difference between .dv files and .mov files that in the DV/DVCPRO NTSC codec.
.dv is used in the PC world, but I believe you can also use them in iMovie.

pwsher wrote:
The dv files appear to import fine. Iam still puzzled by the sound problem I mentioned above though.

Almost anything will import into FCE, but, as you have discovered by the beeping audio tracks, what will easily edit and work in the FCE timeline is a very limited and specific set of file formats.

To solve your beeping problem, until you move, trim or other wise change your edit, click on the clip with the sound on the timeline and type Command + R to render the audio.

See if you can hear the audio then when it is rendered into a format the FCE will work with.

MtD

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Answer 12

pwsher Author

Level 1

6 points

Dec 29, 2010 12:45 PM in response to Meg The Dog

very cool. the R + Command worked like a charm. The sound is perfect now. I can see this will be a long learning curve but FCE appears to be a nice versatile program. I found the free Izzy Video tutorial for FCE and have ordered a book so hopefully my questions will be less in the future.

Thanks to everyone who contributed today!

Suggestions on tutorials and books is appreciated.

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Answer 13

Alchroma

Level 7

23,946 points

Dec 29, 2010 3:17 PM in response to pwsher

After reading these newer posts it's sounding like the video is really not in the "sweet spot" for FCE.

The beeping in the Timeline indicates that your audio is incorrect for the current Timeline settings.

Also as MTD points out .dv and the DV codec FCE requires are different. This is also a reason why the audio beeps. FCE knows is has to conform (render) the audio to make it work in the current Timeline. This may become a real issue when dealing with hours of footage.

BTW: Are you happy with the quality of the pictures? With all the transcoding it's likely quality has taken a hit.

The ideal way to get VHS, S-VHS, 8mm or Hi8 video into FCE is to use an analogue to video converter box.
Similarly a DV camera with "pass through" ability will do a fine job, this means the camera can act as an A/D Converter.
IMO the best option is to connect the analogue player to a DV camera set to 16 bit audio and dub the footage to mini DV tape.

Dubbing to tape creates a backup for your valued analogue tapes. Once dubbed you can use them to do all the work with FCE.

Al

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Answer 14

pwsher Author

Level 1

6 points

Dec 29, 2010 6:04 PM in response to Alchroma

Really great discussion.

I have actually used an analog to video conversion box to convert my mini DV tapes to digital. The VHS not so. Surprisingly I have played the VHS tapes and watched the different conversion results and on my 24" iMac I can see absolutely no difference. I should have prefaced this with saying that the VHS tapes were made from early VHS camera and camcorders from 1983 to-about 1995 when I switch to 8mm DV tape. The VHS original tapes are nothing to write home about since I was pretty cheap and was taping most in the 6 hr mode.

As I go along I will see how long the tapes are and just may restrict each to about an hour per volume. Whether my daughter or anyone will ever want to sit down and watch this, who knows....maybe I'll just put it on a loop at the old folks home and watch it until I die 🙂

Audio.

When I get info on the H.264 files they all say
Codec: H.264, ACC, Text
Audio channels: 2
Total bit rate: This number varies from 3,000 to 4,000 with some as high as 6,000. Is this audio or Video and what does it mean?

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Answer 15

Alchroma

Level 7

23,946 points

Dec 30, 2010 6:41 AM in response to pwsher

I have actually used an analog to video conversion box to convert my mini DV tapes to digital.

This does not make sense, Mini DV should already be in digital format ready to go straight into FCE.
You only need to convert the VHS or 8mm analogue video.

Total bit rate: This number varies from 3,000 to 4,000 with some as high as 6,000. Is this audio or >Video and what does it mean?

It's the combined bit rate of audio and video. Because it varies it's most likely a VBR (variable bit rate) compressed file. In any case H.264 files are simply wrong to work directly in FCE.

Al

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