13 Replies Latest reply: Jan 11, 2011 12:56 PM by Tom Gewecke
IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
Hello,
Has anyone else noticed that the font set for Cherokee on the Mac has some errors? (Keyboard, etc.)

I am VERY grateful that they did this, but it needs to be correct, and the nuances of the characters are very subtle.

How do I find out who to bring this issue to. It's pretty important for the folks trying to use it.

Thanks, (ᏩᏙ)

Isabel

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.4), none
  • IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    PS, if anyone wants to look at another font, FROM the Cherokee Nation- go here
    http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/305/Page/print.aspx
  • Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (74,790 points)
    How do I find out who to bring this issue to. It's pretty important for the folks trying to use it.


    You can tell Apple here:

    http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

    However you might want to also post the specific errors in this forum so other users will know about them. Cherokee was added to OS X in 2003 and to my knowledge nobody has spotted them until now. Or perhaps they are new….
  • Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (74,790 points)
    PS, if anyone wants to look at another font, FROM the Cherokee Nation- go here
    http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/305/Page/print.aspx


    This font uses older technology which maps Cherokee to Latin. This is fine for printing, but for exchanging information on the internet, all computers now use Unicode fonts, and that is what I would recommend.

    http://chr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unicode#Cherokee-compatibleUnicodefonts
  • IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Hi Everyone,
    Thank you for the responses.

    I DO have one of the Unicode fonts, and when I pull up Pages or Illustrator and type with the Cherokee font in that, I see what I think of as the "correct" letters.

    It is only when use the tool that I got from the System Preferences/Languages & Text/Input Sources and add the Cherokee Nation and Cherokee Qwerty, and type using the keyboard viewer or the character viewer (you know, you go up to the top right and click the flag...) THOSE are the ones that are incorrect (IMHO) and, since I'm still learning, I NEED those tools.

    That sounds like it might be the case, that these may be something that was collected from old Latin-that's what some of them look like, but they aren't supposed to be copies of Latin-they are different!
    I am wondering if there's any way to change the FONT on the keyboard/Character map tools, INTO that Unicode font?

    Thanks for your help-this potentially impacts a lot of people trying to learn the language.

    Isabel
  • IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    the biggest differences that I've found are in the Ꭴ and Ꮕ syllables, (and what appears in Cherokee here is the MAC installed font, NOT the Unicode font I downloaded) which are named U and NV...especially on NV, one of it's little arms is missing-with that small omission, these two look very much alike-and U's arm is not going in the right direction...they have really mixed them up. Also the width of these two is wrong.
    Then there's also Ꮃ and Ꮤ, La and Ta, which look very similar, but in Mac's font, the La doesn't look right. The He syllable, Ꭾ, is too short and stubby.
    There are more and most are subtle.
    I know this seems like nit picking, but for someone learning, it makes it harder.
    Thanks
  • IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    PS, yes, it IS Apple's Plantagenet Cherokee that is in the keyboard and character viewer...
    Any way to change that to one of the Unicode fonts?
  • Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (74,790 points)
    I DO have one of the Unicode fonts, and when I pull up Pages or Illustrator and type with the Cherokee font in that, I see what I think of as the "correct" letters.


    You cannot type Unicode Cherokee by just changing the font. You must use a special keyboard layout. So if you are using the normal US layout and getting Cherokee, you are not using a Unicode font but in fact an old font which maps Cherokee to Latin.

    It is only when use the tool that I got from the System Preferences/Languages & Text/Input Sources and add the Cherokee Nation and Cherokee Qwerty, and type using the keyboard viewer


    Understood. That could be either a problem with the OS X Unicode font (Plantagenet) or the keyboard layout. One test you could to is to install another Cherokee Unicode font from here:

    http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Cherokee.html

    and see if it is better.
  • IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Well, With all of your help, I solved my problem-at least for the CHARACTER Viewer, I have not figured out how to change the font on the Keyboard viewer though.
    I did see that my problem was that the "correct" font that I was using was indeed an old TTF font.

    So here's what I did.
    I went to the link that actually two of you provided and found a font called Aboriginal Serif Regular, and downloaded that. I put it in a "collection" in the Font Book that I called Cherokee Collection. Then I went into the Character viewer, and down lower on it, it has a drop-down menu for Font Variation. I dropped it down, found where there was a button for collections, found the Cherokee collection folder I had made, and clicked on Aboriginal Serif Regular.
    Now as long as I am in the Character Viewer I can type in whatever Cherokee Unicode font I want.
    NOW I have to figure out how to do that on the keyboard part...
    Whew!

    One drawback is that, if I say, want to post something in Cherokee on my Facebook, only those with the Unicode font already installed in their computer will see it. This would mean all Mac users, and Windows 7 users, but NOT Windows XP users, unless they've downloaded it themselves.

    And, as a beginning student, the "sans serif" fonts I just can't handle in my brain right now, but thanks for the links all-someday I'll be writing in stylized Cherokee!

    If I figure out how to change the font on the keyboard I will come back and post it here.

    But yes, my problem was that I was using an old TTF font, vs. the "Plantagenet Cherokee" that Apple installs.
    I think I might still send them a note-because if this "Plantagenet Cherokee" is going to be on everyone's iPod and iPad and Mac, it should be a little more close to the original syllabary.

    Thanks!
  • Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (74,790 points)
    the biggest differences that I've found …


    Yes, I think you are right, Plantagenet has some bad glyphs. You might want to look at the official Unicode chart, which is what Unicode fonts are normally supposed to try to follow:

    http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U13A0.pdf

    Hopefully one of the other fonts available via the wazu link I gave you earlier is better…I had a look at Aboriginal Serif, Digohweli, and MPH 2B Damase and they did seem more correct.
  • Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (74,790 points)
    Well, With all of your help, I solved my problem-at least for the CHARACTER Viewer, I have not figured out how to change the font on the Keyboard viewer though.


    Unfortunately the Keyboard Viewer will use Plantagenet unless you remove it from the OS. But that doesn't matter, what you type in Pages or Text Edit is determined by the font setting you make in that app, not what it shows on Keyboard Viewer. What people see on the internet depends on the font they have installed on their computer, not what you see on yours.

    This would mean all Mac users, and Windows 7 users, but NOT Windows XP users, unless they've downloaded it themselves.


    Everybody using the internet should be using the Unicode fonts, that is the agreed standard, even for XP. Without it they could not read the cherokee wikipedia or anything else really. And surely XP does not come with the old latin-mapped font already installed, does it?

    I think I might still send them a note-because if this "Plantagenet Cherokee" is going to be on everyone's iPod and iPad and Mac, it should be a little more close to the original syllabary.


    Yes, you should do that.
  • IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Yes that Unicode is also better-but not what Plantagenet looks like.

    I did find that if I type something via the Plantagenet Keyboard Viewer, in Pages then I can go in and select, like say Aboriginal Serif and it will change it to that although it will NOT change it to something like Arial.

    I still wish the keyboard viewer font could be changed...

    If I totally deleted Plantagenet off the computer I wonder what they keyboard viewer would do? (afraid I might break something if I try it

    I guess I'll have to live with the Plantagenet on line and be grateful it exists!! I did write Mac tho-just to let them know.
    I think it's just a matter of if it's a language you don't speak, you may not realize the importance of some little leg or arm on a letter.

    Thanks for all your help!
    I start Cherokee class tonight!!

    ᏩᏙ
    Isabel
  • IsaYonah Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    I think with the exception of getting Apple to work on their Plantagenet font, that I am satisfied with the information I found.
    Many thanks to all you knowledgeable people out there!!

    ᏩᏙ
    Isabel
  • Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (74,790 points)
    I did find that if I type something via the Plantagenet Keyboard Viewer, in Pages then I can go in and select, like say Aboriginal Serif and it will change it to that although it will NOT change it to something like Arial.


    It can't use Arial because there is no Cherokee in that font. The only fonts with Cherokee in them are Plantagenet and the ones listed in that wazu link.

    If I totally deleted Plantagenet off the computer I wonder what they keyboard viewer would do?


    It would show Aboriginal Serif (or some other font that you had installed with Cherokee in it). I would not hesitate to remove Plantagenet -- it has incorrect glyphs and taking it out should not break anything at all.