14 Replies Latest reply: Jan 15, 2011 2:08 AM by aberdabei
MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
MacBook Pro on 10.6.6, iTunes 10.1 (54), iPod Classic 80gb, 1.1.2 firmware, Macintosh format

After having my iPod set to "manually manage music and video" for years, I decided to give "sync" a go - it works absolutely PERFECT between my Apple TV and iTunes on my MBP (actual media is stored on a NAS, but library is on my MBP) and I just want it to be "simple" when I plug my iPod in, and for it to just make whatever changes I've made to my library; updating a playlist, change of album art or other metadata to a song, removing unwanted songs, adding new ones - without me having to do it all manually. As said, it's PERFECT with my Apple TV (1st gen) and I want the same for my iPod...

So, I plugged iPod into MBP, wiped it so it was bare, then unticked Manually Manage, and iTunes told me it would sync all music and video blah blah. I left "Sync entire library" ticked under music, and unticked video and tv shows (don't need on my iPod) and let it sync.

End result - 6613 songs. Strange as my library is 6629

Unplugged it, plugged it back in and pressed sync (just incase that would magically carry over the 14 missing songs) - so it did the "Determining songs to sync" then started syncing 1850?!?!?!

Stopped it, as I'd had this prob before, and did a restore of the 1.1.2 firmware (already had this on it, but thought I'd do a restore and change it's format from windows to Mac) and resync'd...

This time I got 6627 songs, and videos. So when it was done I unticked video's and it removed them from my iPod, leaving me with 6627 songs. Still two missing - and no idea how to find out which two!

So I pressed sync again. It "determined tracks to sync" then finished. Obviously it didn't sync anything.

So I unplugged it, plugged it in, and it began autosyncing (even tho I disabled autosync in prefs?!) and lo and behold - it's now resyncing 1216 tracks that are already on my iPod!!!

Going to the status bar that shows how many songs, vids, gb of data, etc in iTunes instead of being 53gb full it's now 43gb full, clicking it to change to how many songs it's showing 5411 songs instead of the 6627 it originally had

Why is it deleting songs and resyncing them?!?!

When I plug it in to update a playlist or add three new songs, I don't want it resyncing thousands of songs that are already on it, and I don't need to sit there for hours waiting for it to be done when three songs should take seconds to finish!

Why is it doing it?!?!

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.6), iTunes 10.1(54) + iPod Classic (1.1.2)
  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Just to add, now it's finished resyncing songs it shouldn't have, the iPod itself is reporting 6622 songs on it, and in iTunes, if I click Music under my iPod in the left side bar it tells me at the bottom it has 6622 songs. But on the main iPod view, the coloured status bar tells me it has 6627 songs, and if I click the music tab, where you can change what items to sync, it also tells me it has 6627 songs.

    Yet my iTunes library is 6629 songs?

    Why won't it just sync properly - just like my Apple Tv does!!!!!!
  • turingtest2 Level 9 Level 9 (61,380 points)
    How many *Music Videos* do you have? The coloured bar may include *Music Videos* in Videos and not Audio, but the same files may be included in the count of Songs in other summaries of the content.

    One possible reason for discrepancy in the number of files in the library and on the device is if two or more library entries are connected to the same physical file in iTunes. Only one file can be copied to the device. Hold down SHIFT (could be Option on a Mac) and click *File > Display Exact Duplicates* to see if there are any candidate files. Use *Get Info > Summary* tab to view the locations of any matching files to see if two have the same path. If so delete one entry but Keep the file. Repeat until you only have one copy of each file. Try syncing again.

  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Hi, thanks for the reply!

    I don't have any music video's at all. I have 40 or so video files in iTunes, none of which have come from the iTunes store. I'm also telling it NOT to sync my video's, tv shows or photo's (or anything other than music) to my iPod. iTunes DOES however sync movies, music and TV shows to my ATV1 - and it does this with NO fuss at all.

    I did the exact duplicate thing (didn't know you could do that!) and it found 18 listings - really odd because I didn't know there were any exact duplicates (I know I have some some songs duplicated, but they are on different albums - for example I know I have AC/DC's "Back in Black" on three different albums, but they have different metadata tags and iTunes differentiates between them correctly.

    Anyway I deleted the duplicate files so I only have one of each of those exact duplicates. I'm just waiting for it to finish a prior sync before I can try again, and can report back to it's behaviour.

    As for libraries, I only have one iTunes library, and when I moved to a MacBook Pro from a Windows computer, I built up the new library from scratch - I took all the existing media files, on my NAS, changed the default iTunes Media Folder location to a folder on my NAS, then added it all to the library, and let iTunes build it how it wanted - doing the whole "keeping iTunes media folder organised" etc

    It's just strange that when my ATV connects to iTunes on my MBP it sync with no fuss at all. I just see it show up in the left sidebar, the bit at the top shows "Syncing Apple TV" and if there is new stuff it tells me it's syncing those files; if there is no new stuff it just says "Finished Syncing" (or whatever the correct text is).

    And that's how I expect it to handle my iPod, but instead I get the "Determining tracks to sync" at the top, then it resyncs x-thousand tracks that are already there!
  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Ok, total songs in iTunes library is now 6620 (previously 6629 before removing exact duplicates)

    Resync'd iPod (whilst it was still plugged in) and it sync'd 6 tracks - prior to sync it said it had 6622 songs, after sync it reports 6620 - so for the first time it's actually showing the same amount of songs as the library is. Good start.

    Unplugged, and plugged back in again, and pressed sync. "Determining tracks to sync" for about 20 seconds, and now it's syncing 1209 songs. Again.

    I really don't know why it's doing this!
  • turingtest2 Level 9 Level 9 (61,380 points)
    Hmm, OK, this isn't an area I have too much experience with, but I'm going to speculate wildly. I don't know the exact details but when it places your media on the device iTunes uses some kind of hashing algorithm to determine which folder & four letter filename gets assigned. This is based on the path, so any changes to the path data in iTunes could cause the files to be resynced. This might include something as trivial as changing the casing of a folder name. If iTunes is set to Keep the iTunes Media folder organised it may be trying to "correct" some casing discrepancies as it goes, only to have them corrected again as further tracks are processed. Try turning off the *Keep iTunes Media folder organised* option and see if things settle down...

  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I see where you are going, but no file paths or names (of files or folders) have been changed between syncs. Also, if that was the case, then my ATV wouldn't sync properly either, but that syncs perfectly fine everytime.

    I thought at first it might be conflict with the iPod as it was formatted for Windows (originally used with a Windows PC) which is why a) I wiped all data from it, and b) I restored it's firmware back to standard and let it change it to Macintosh format, hoping that would solve it. It didn't.

    And whats weird also, is in the coloured status bar it shows 52.x gb music, and 0.49 gb of "other" - but there is no other on it; no vids, no tv shows, no contacts, no calendars, no anything. The only thing on here is music.

    After it has, finally, made a carbon copy of my library on my iPod, I can press the sync button as many times as I like it nothings changed. Until I unplugg it and replug it - then it "resyncs" x-thousand tracks again...
  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    It's just finished the sync I did where I said it was redoing 1209 songs. But it then only showed 6616 songs on my iPod, so I had to press Sync again to get it to do the other 4 songs (hadn't unplugged it) It's now done those 4 and both my library in iTunes, and my iPod, both in iTunes and on the iPod itself, are reporting 6620 songs...

    Daren't unplug it again now for fear of having to wait another half hour for it to resync songs it's already got on there!!!

    Trouble is, I can't even take it to an Apple store and recreate the problem, as my music sits on a NAS device on my network. So short of copying all my music to my MBP internal drive, and rebuilding the library - which knowing my luck will probably fix the issue, but isn't something I want to do as I specifically have this NAS drive to serve music and video throughout the house, and NOT have multiple copies on multiple devices everywhere...
  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Ok, went to prefs, unticked the "keep organised", plugged iPod back in, pressed sync - and surprise surprise, it's now "syncing" 1208 songs. Again.

  • turingtest2 Level 9 Level 9 (61,380 points)
    Don't worry about the "Other", is just a matter of accounting... Here's my standard post on the topic.
    "Other" is the measure of used space on the iPod not taken up by Audio, Video & Photos. This includes the iPod's library and artwork plus any files you may have copied to your iPod in disk mode. The overhead for the library & artwork data is typically 1-2% of the size of the media, e.g. for 100Gb of Audio & Video expect to have around 1.5Gb of "Other". This information is needed for the iPod's operation and cannot be removed.

    If you have significantly larger amounts of "Other", not related to files you've intentionally placed on the iPod, then these are probably disconnected copies of your media files or iPod libraries left over from failed sync operations. The only way to recover the space is to do a full restore.

    OK, it was just a shot in the dark, but continuing my earlier line of thought it might still be worth trying something. Turn off the *Keep iTunes Media folder organised* option, choose a new location as the designated media folder. Don't let iTunes move or copy any files if it asks you, but do let it *Update the library* during which it should take a few minutes just to confirm that every file is where it thinks it should be. Then restore the original path for the media folder and let it update the library again. Any improvement?

  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    How do I update the library? I take it you mean to co in prefs, change the iTunes Media Folder location to a new file path, (I would need both "keep organised" and "copy" unticked right?) but then how do I "update the library"? And when I change it back (to the filepath I currently have you mean?) how do I re-update it?


    Message was edited by: MattCowan01
  • turingtest2 Level 9 Level 9 (61,380 points)
    Don't worry... After changing the location it just puts up a little "Updating library" dialog with a Stop button (or at least it did my PC version last night as I was testing behaviour for another thread).

    I've just remembered the that the hash algorithm is path independant and must be based solely on tag properties as I'm able to sync my device both at home and at work, with the libraries at completely different paths, withour redundant sync operations. The depths of my memory are now prompting me with the concept of multiple tags, i.e. both ID3v1 and ID3v2 tags included in the same file. As iTunes processes files these might trigger it to see files as having changed in some way.

  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    So not worth changing the media folder location if it's filepath independent then?

    Not sure what to do, or how to even find out about, the v1 or v2 tags... I just know it sync perfectly with my Apple TV, but not my iPod :S
  • MattCowan01 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Switched it back to Manually Manage for the time being, as I just can't be doing with waiting half hour everytime I want to add a new song! (and this is currently with my MBP hardwired into the router - normally it's over Wifi (802.11g) so a full sync of the entire library takes 4hrs - hardwired it takes 2, so the 1200 tracks it insists on redoing everytime would actually take me an hour or more everytime!)

    Really annoying tho. I just don't know why it won't behave how it should, and more to the point, why it won't behave with auto syncing like my ATV does! It's that that makes me think it's not a library problem, or file location problem, but more an iPod problem or iTunes talking to iPod problem (as it talks to my ATV fine)
  • aberdabei Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I have been having the same issue for quite a while but since updating to the newest iTunes version ( it has gotten a lot worse. It used to update around 300 tracks every time i sync'ed, after going with the new version that number is up to 1775! It's really annoying and it seems like Apple is doing nothing about it considering I've had this problem for a long time - only now it's a lot worse!