encoding to high profile h.264 with quicktime (7 pro) export

Question

encoding to high profile h.264 with quicktime (7 pro) export

Is there anyway to encode high profile h264 with quicktime export ?

Been using a canon HF100 for years now, and my goal is to edit and export my movies to h264 with the least quality lost. I can edit(trimming and merging) without quality loss. My endresult is in AIC codec, but when I export it to H264 in quicktime, in the highest settings, I can still see quality(or actually, color depth) loss in low light scenes.
Even with a bitrate which is almost identical to the AIC file...
I have a 130.2Mb (52.7Mbps) h264 main@Level 5 with 2 reference frames/second clip that looks worse the the original AIC file(56.9Mbps) of 143.8Mb

The canon HF100 records in high profile at level 4.0 (high@L4) with 17Mbps. It does 2 reference frames per second and CABAC.

So in theory exporting my projects at 17Mbps should be enough, if only the right settings where available in quicktime export.

Is there anyway to convert AIC to High profile settings, CABAC(available in main profile but not used bij quicktime in h264 output) on the MAC ?

My workflow:
1. I use shedworx VoltaicHD to convert my AVCHD files to AIC (pretty much lossles)
2. I use Imovie 6 to create a new Project in the following structure: HDV1080i
3. I don't import the AIC files with iMovie but I dump them with Finder in the "media" folder of the Imovie project.(This way I can maintain the 1920x1080 resolution, with importing it gets 1440x1080)
4. Then I open the project in Imovie, open the trashcan and see my movie clips.
5. Then the trimming, cutting and merging begins, no use of effects(adding effects creates 1440x1080 video)
6. Time for export with quicktime h264 codec.

Imac 5.1 intel core 2 duo @ 2Ghz, Mac OS X (10.6.6)

Posted on Jan 17, 2011 6:29 AM

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Answer 1

MartinR

Level 7

25,546 points

Jan 18, 2011 5:49 AM in response to Clearblue sky

QuickTime H.264 Technology Brief

Apple Intermediate Codec

In the QT export, have you selected Best Quality (Multi-pass encoding) for the compression setting?

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Answer 2

MartinR

Level 7

25,546 points

Jan 18, 2011 6:53 AM in response to Clearblue sky

Some thoughts ...

You have an AVCHD camcorder. Where did you get the technical information that it records HiProfile/Level 4/2 ref frames per sec/CABAC?

iMovie06 was never designed to work with AVCHD. While you seem to have found a back door to get iMovie06 to at least appear to work with 1920x1080 AIC material, it was not designed to do so. Movie06 was released supporting DV and HDV. It was well before AVCHD became popular. HDV is 1440x1080 anamorphic non-square pixels, so no surprise that iMovie06 would treat AIC material as 1440x1080.

VoltaicHD's conversion isn't exactly 1920x1080, either. Open one of your AIC files in QT Player, do +Window > Show Movie Inspector+ and tell us what it says for format and fps. 1440x1080? 1888x1062?

There will always be some differences between your source AVCHD material and any conversion, Apple Intermediate Codec included. It's unavoidable even if the compression algorithm is truly lossless. Remember, among other things, AVCHD is made up of I,P & B frames. AIC is all I-frame.

I certainly understand your efforts to get the results you want with what you have on hand. However you will be better off with iMovie11 and/or Final Cut Express 4 or Final Cut Studio 6. FCP 6 by the way supports ProRes which, if you are very driven for the highest technical qualities, would be the way to go.

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Answer 3

Jan 19, 2011 2:29 AM in response to MartinR

Yes, I've selected multi pass encoding. But I can see still some color depth loss. (larger areas with one color, which in the oroiginal aic file had multicolor detail.)
I'm afraid that's one of the tricks of the h.264 codec, compressing a file by dropping colors.

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Answer 4

Jan 19, 2011 3:07 AM in response to MartinR

Hi MartinR,

Some answers on your thoughts:

"You have an AVCHD camcorder. Where did you get the technical information that it records HiProfile/Level 4/2 ref frames per sec/CABAC?"

-I'v dropped some original mts files from my camera on a program called "mediainfo" from sourceforge net.

"VoltaicHD's conversion isn't exactly 1920x1080, either. Open one of your AIC files in QT Player, do Window > Show Movie Inspector and tell us what it says for format and fps. 1440x1080? 1888x1062?"

-Both mediainfo and quicktime (7 pro and the new quicktime) show in their info that the movie format from voltaicHD file is 1920x1080.
But I can remember I've seen the 1888x1062 resolution in the info in the past. Maybe things where changed by a new version of voltaic or an update by quicktime ?

" certainly understand your efforts to get the results you want with what you have on hand. However you will be better off with iMovie11 and/or Final Cut Express 4 or Final Cut Studio 6. FCP 6 by the way supports ProRes which, if you are very driven for the highest technical qualities, would be the way to go."

I thought about buying imovie 11 in the app store. For 11,99 euro's it's a bargain!
But a little search on the forums kept me from buying it.
My camera puts out interlaced files, even when I record progressive. This is done by most camera manufacturers for compatibility on blu ray players and older lcd and plasma tv's.
Now it seems that if you use effects in imovie 11, it drops half the fields, resulting in 960x540 resolution...In that case imovie 6 with 1440x1080 supported effects is still better.
The same 1440x1080 limitations seems to exist in Final cut express 4.
I know the backdoor in imvie06 works, you can see the 1920 to 1440 resolution drop with your own eyes when effects are added. The drop is only visible in the frames that contain a special effect, the rest of the exported movie is untouched and still 1920.

I did some thinking, and what bothers me the most is that exporting the movie results in loss of color depth/detail. I could imagine that if I could use Prores422 instead of AIC, which is only available in FCP (999Euro's!). That the end result is better, but I'm not sure.
Could be that the colors of the original movie file are spread more over the range because it supports 10 bit sample depth instead of 8. Even when that is true, I am not sure if the h.264 codec will tread it different and maintains some more color depth.
And for fact the avchd files are 4:2:0 and not 4:2:2.
Do you or anyone know if there is any different in quality in an exported to h.264 pro resolution file or an AIC file. Even when the source is 8 bit 4:2:0 ?

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Answer 5

MartinR

Level 7

25,546 points

Jan 19, 2011 11:20 AM in response to Clearblue sky

+" ... Now it seems that if you use effects in imovie 11, it drops half the fields ..."+

That is a well known problem in how iMovie08/09/11 handle +DV video.+ But I have never heard of that being an issue with AVCHD video.

+" ... same 1440x1080 limitations seems to exist in Final cut express 4 ..."+

FCE 4 handles 1920x1080 AVCHD video as well as 1440x1080 HDV. There was a 4.0.1 update that added the higher resolution AVCHD/AIC easy setups.

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Answer 6

Jan 19, 2011 2:13 PM in response to MartinR

I'm not sure about you're first answer, according to apple forum, some people get full resolution 1920x1080 output by adding NO effects and many loose resolution but they don't know why(probably by adding effects ? But if it's only with DV and not AVCHD ?

But that other thing, what you're saying about FCE is quite interesting.
I didn't know about the FCE 4.0.1 update.
Thanks!

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