Previous 1 2 Next 24 Replies Latest reply: Feb 15, 2012 10:07 AM by Kurt Lang Go to original post
  • Andrew Beswick Design Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    HI Bee

    I have updated all my apps, and just gone to OSX 10.6.6.
    As a creative freelancer with a decent tech knowledge, i find the blind spot in my field is fonts!
    I have many, as i do many jobs and clients, and find that some have goen haywire and wont draw on screen since going to 10.6.6.
    I had hoped it woudl be an easy transition... as work is piling up and needs doing ..but some fonts just wont play. I have mastered and use Keynote, iweb, indesign, photoshop, quark etc all for work... but admit, im stumped at font storage.
    We do need others on apple discussion to help us and rely on these good people to do that..as i do in return to people when i can.

    I found some fonts just wont draw....
    but installed a few, but am aware im doubling up now with some...

    do i just clear my fonts all off and delete, then reinstall...
    or move them all to the HD - LIBRARY -FONTS folder - of just main used ones....?

    Being honest - Im afraid im desperate and need simple clear laymans advice on fonts.
    I can rebuild iweb grids, pitch and art direct glossy and b2b big magazines and teams... be concept and practicla creative ..
    but cant do **** simple font control! Help would be much appreciated!

    Thanks in advance
  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8 (35,705 points)
    Having any given font suddenly work by putting it in the System folder is a bit of luck, and a bit of bypassing Font Book.

    Being honest - Im afraid im desperate and need simple clear laymans advice on fonts.


    Fonts work the same as always. Well, since 10.6.3 anyway. Apple had worked out most of the bugs in Snow Leopard by that time.

    I don't like taking shots at Apple's products on their own forums, but Font Book itself is the cause of almost all font issues in OS X. Both in Snow Leopard and before. It is probably the most poorly written piece of software included with OS X. It's database seems to be very easily damaged. Once that happens, fonts stop working; you can't enable or disable them; fonts show up in applications that should be disabled; etc.

    If you want to continue trying to use Font Book, first get back to square one with it. Restart your Mac and immediately hold down the Shift key when you hear the startup chime to boot into Safe Mode. Keep holding the Shift key until OS X asks you to log in (you will get this screen on a Safe Mode boot even if your Mac is set to automatically log in). Let the Mac finish booting to the desktop and then restart normally.

    This will clear Font Book's database and the cache files of the user account you logged into in Safe Mode. Any font sets you have created will be gone. Also, all fonts in the three main Fonts folders (System, Library, your user account) will now be active, regardless of their state beforehand.

    Next, you need to clear all font cache files from the system.

    Close all running applications. From an administrator account, open the Terminal app and enter the following command. You can also copy/paste it from here into the Terminal window:

    sudo atsutil databases -remove

    This removes all font cache files. Both for the system and all user font cache files. After running the command, close Terminal and immediately restart your Mac.

    Let us know where you are at this point.
  • Andrew Beswick Design Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thanks Kurt
    I will try this and get back to you. Your help is much appreciated, as I am on deadline with two jobs and suddenly only formata light and LightCnd are not working!
    Thanks you again.
  • Andrew Beswick Design Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Kurt

    where do i find the TERMINAL APP

    open the Terminal app and enter the following command. You can also copy/paste it from here into the Terminal window:

    sudo atsutil databases -remove

    im half way through this ... cant find terminal!
  • Andrew Beswick Design Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    HI Kurt

    OK..i have done that, and cleared cache using terminal...

    I still seem to have fonts missing, some weights in a family etc.
    I seem to have masses of duplicates too.
    Do i need to pile all fonts into one folder...system or user library fonts?

    Its incredibly frustrating..i feel like deleting every font and reloading everything...but dont have the time at the moment.

    any advice...
    plus
    *i get a message when i open font book saying*
    The following files can no longer be found but contain fonts used by one of your defined font libraries. Font Book will not be able to display information on these fonts until they are restored to their original locations.
    then it lists about 30 fonts.... alarmingly!!!!
  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8 (35,705 points)
    I still seem to have fonts missing, some weights in a family etc.


    The first would be caused by duplicates. In other words, font conflicts which cause the conflicting font, or both, to disappear.

    I seem to have masses of duplicates too.


    The duplicates were caused by the Safe Mode boot to reset Font Book's database. Doing that enables every font on the system (in the three main Fonts folders). So any conflicts you had resolved before are now conflicting again. Unfortunately, the only way to fix a mangled Font Book database is a Safe Mode boot.

    Do i need to pile all fonts into one folder...system or user library fonts?


    The System folder is a not a good place to put your fonts for at least a couple of reasons. One, it's a pain in the rear. You have to enter your admin password just to put them in there. Then again to delete them from the folder since you can't simply drag them back out. Secondly, if you put conflicting fonts into that folder, the only way to resolve it is to manually delete one of the fonts.

    The following files can no longer be found but contain fonts used by one of your defined font libraries.


    It's complaining about fonts that are listed in one or more font collection files (found in your user account) aren't on the drive where they were at the time the collections were created.

    The short answer. Get rid of Font Book and spend the money on a font manager that actually works. Suitcase Fusion 3 or FontExplorer X Pro are currently the best choices. Long answer, follow these steps:

    1) Open Font Book, and then its preferences. Uncheck the box for "Alert me if system fonts change". Close the preferences and shut down Font Book. Put the Font Book application in the trash and delete it.

    2) Restart your Mac and immediately hold down the Shift key when you hear the startup chime to boot into Safe Mode. Keep holding it until OS X asks you to log in (you will get this screen on a Safe Mode boot even if your Mac is set to automatically log in). Let the Mac finish booting to the desktop and then restart normally.

    This will reset Font Book's database and clear the cache files in your user account. Any font sets you have created will be gone. Also, all fonts in the three main Fonts folders (System, Library, your user account) will now be active, regardless of their state beforehand.

    The main goal in step 2 is to remove the orphaned Font Book database from the hard drive. With the Font Book application no longer on the hard drive, a new one cannot be created. Which is what we want.

    3) Follow the Font Management in OS X guide to get your fonts down to the minimum. The /Library/Fonts/ folder, and the Fonts folder in your user account should be empty. Put them wherever you want to use when needed, just not in any other Fonts folder. You will never put any fonts in these two folders again. The only fonts remaining in the /System/Library/Fonts/ folder should be:

    AppleGothic.ttf
    Geneva.dfont
    HelveLTMM
    Helvetica LT MM
    Helvetica.dfont
    HelveticaLight.ttf
    HelveticaLightItalic.ttf
    HelveticaNeue.ttc
    Keyboard.ttf
    LastResort.ttf
    LucidaGrande.ttc
    Menlo.ttc
    Monaco.dfont
    Times LT MM
    TimesLTMM
    Times.dfont
    Symbol.dfont

    If you need to use other versions of Helvetica, Helvetica Neue or Helvetica Light, you'll have to move those to another location (with the rest of your third party fonts) and delete the duplicates in the ProtectedFonts folder so they can't put themselves back.

    These should be the only permanently active fonts left on the drive.

    4) Purchase Suitcase Fusion 3 or FEX Pro and install one or the other. Both have trial periods to test them and see which you prefer. If you decide you want to try both, make sure to completely uninstall the first before installing the second. Never have more than one font manager on your system at a time.

    No matter which one you choose, make sure the option to activate fonts in place is on. That way they will never be copied anywhere, so the /Library/Fonts/ folder, and the Fonts folder of your user account will always remain empty. There's no need for any fonts to ever be in those folders in order to use them. That's what you use a good font manager for. Turn them on, turn them off, don't copy or move fonts from their original location, ever.

    I suggest these two font mangers in particular not just because they work so well, but because both will not let you turn conflicting fonts on, assuming you set up the preferences correctly to begin with. None of the others I've tested work as well as SF3 and FEX Pro.

    I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.
  • stedystate Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Andrew Beswick Design wrote:

     

    "any advice...

    plus

    *i get a message when i open font book saying*

    The following files can no longer be found but contain fonts used by one of your defined font libraries. Font Book will not be able to display information on these fonts until they are restored to their original locations.

    then it lists about 30 fonts.... alarmingly!!!!"

     

    I had the same issue in Snow Leopard. I did everything Kurt suggested and that part was fine, but that window kept coming up when I launch Font Book. I even threw it away, did the Terminal delete, safe boot and etc, and it still came up. Finally I realized what Kurt is talking about- in the Font Book window in the upper left is a "collection" list. It might start with "All fonts", then "English", "User" and "Computer". Then there will be custom lists that were user created. This is where the window comes from. I had done a migration from Tiger. Turns out I had one custom list for a special project, and knowing almost nothing about font management, put them somewhere where I didn't know where they were. On the new Snow Leopard system they are nowhere to be found. That's probably because whatever volume they were on, they are not here now. I didn't need that special project on this drive any longer, so I deleted the list in that window. That was the end of the alert.

     

    But interestingly, the alert continued to come up, along with the custom list, even though Font Book was thrown out and erased, and the whole routine done. I had backup up the drive beforehand, and reinstalled Font Book from the backup afterward. Seems to me the list might have been imbedded in the program itself, because I successfully erased the whole thing in Terminal, or so I think:

     

    "

    Removing: /private/var/folders/zz/zzzivhrRnAmviuee++++ME+++42/-Caches-/System

    Removing: /private/var/folders/cp/cp3qE6eI2RWubE+kNPVPc++++TI/-Caches-/com.apple.FontRegi stry"

     

    Anyway, that one alert is about collection lists where fonts are no longer found. You probably have them somewhere, so might go on a search and see if you can find them again, and put them back into the collection.

     

    Thank you Kurt for your great advice and PDF primer. I'm going to get to your PayPal account shortly and send some goodwill.

     

    Carl

  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8 (35,705 points)

    Thank you, stedystate. Very generous of you.

  • stedystate Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Kurt, a followup to our adventure here. I don't hang out in the font section so much, as once this issue is done we'll move on. I run a small business and we don't change font libraries. Once we're good to go we leave it as-is. So perhaps I can make a small contribution in return and leave this with you for those who can benefit-  We're finally making the transition from Tiger/Classic/Clarisworks to Intel/SnowLeopard/Rosetta. The last detail we needed to nail down is that pesky monospaced generic font issue printing out of Appleworks under Rosetta in Snow Leopard. We have a large number of documents we use continually that are formatted in ClarisWorks and open just fine under Appleworks (6.2.4, for particular reasons)/Rosetta.

     

    We were getting the fonts we use appearing fine on-screen, but they were not getting to the printer. I finally read somewhere else (perhaps another forum altogether) that an Appleworks user finally figured out that Appleworks looks in a particular place for its fonts when printing, kind of like a leftover from Classic or OS9. When I put an original font in my user file under Font Book, Appleworks prints generic monospaced font, in this particular case it is Zapf Chancery, ala Apple 1992. But it renders on the screen just fine! What really had me confused is Microsoft Word prints the font without any issue, so I figured its not the font per-se, but Appleworks/Rosetta. Apparently that is the case. Prior to the solution, we could only get an accurate print by using Preview, which worked okay, but that's a different kind of file. I'll mention here I've read folks telling people they need to dump all their legacy fonts and buy new ones. Well that might be a solution, but in our case it was unnecessary.

     

    I manually put the font in the SYSTEM... Home>System>Library>Fonts

     

    “Bingo, problem solved”. And folks that have been using legacy fonts for all these years may not have to throw them all out. I was getting ready to buy an updated version of Zapf Chancery (because Apple Chancery is not the same) and as a last ditch effort tried this manual placement into the System. So now anything I need to print from Appleworks is going there!

     

    I breathe with a sigh of relief. We're not ready to reformat our entire 15 years of document development just yet.

     

    Thanks again for your contributions. I'm going to keep your Font Management paper filed where I can get to it, as well as look for updates from time to time.

     

    Carl

  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8 (35,705 points)

    I've never had to do that for any program, so had to think about it for a bit. But it actually does make sense. Programs are indeed written at times to look for files in one place, and one place only. Such as this:

     

    I have found that if you remove the profile "sRGB Profile.icc" from the /System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/ folder, the File Info dialogue box in Illustrator CS4 will come up blank! So will the entire Adobe Extension Manager CS4 interface. What this one particular profile could possibly have to do with the display of a dialogue box, I don't know. You also can't move that profile to the /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/ folder, or the Profiles folder in your user account. While the profile is just as active in either location, the CS4 applications mentioned will blank out if that profile is not specifically in the System's Profiles folder.

     

    So the same idea could be what you ran across with ClarisWorks and Appleworks. In OS 9 and earlier, all fonts were in the /System Folder/Fonts/ folder. So the closest these programs could come to find a font in its expected location of the system folder is /System/Library/Fonts/.

     

    That is such a great catch that I'm going to add that to my article as a possible fix for such issues.

     

    Thank YOU, Carl!

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