13 Replies Latest reply: Jan 31, 2011 3:23 PM by UCanCallMeAl
UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
Hello QT People,
Customer needs the finished video in AVI and in a size for web.
I am using MpegStreamclip and wondering what I choose for the compression choices that Streamclip is giving me ? DVC Pro ?

The QT movie is about 8 mins long, (720x480) 16x9 and there is very little movement in it. No quick action just a guy talking and moving slow.

Thanks,
Al

Message was edited by: UCanCallMeAl

iMac G4, MBPro, Mac OS X (10.5.8)
  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (18,125 points)
    I am using MpegStreamclip and wondering what I choose for the compression choices that Streamclip is giving me ? DVC Pro ?

    Since AVI refers to the file container and its method of interleaving the audio and video content, you should really be asking your client what form of audio and video compression he wants. Popular variants include anything from DivX/MP3 to MJPEG/ADPCM to DV with the specific choice predicated on how the clip is to be distributed, used, or further edited.

  • UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Yea I have a question into them. They are in PC environment.
    The clip is to be used on it's website only.
    Needs to stream.

    I get no audio though so far when exporting to AVI.
    Do I need to download something for QT ?

    Thanks Jon,
    Al
  • varjak paw Level 10 Level 10 (169,810 points)
    If you're using Streamclip, the QuickTime software is not involved. It's all Streamclip, so you may need to confirm that Streamclip is exporting to the AVI using an audio codec that the PC player can handle.

    I'd suggest avoiding AVI altogether unless your client absolutely insists. AVI is an obsolete format - even Microsoft, who developed it, has dropped it - so a more modern, better defined format would in my opinion be a better choice. If the customer insists, of course, then you have to do what they ask. But as Jon said, you need to know what codecs in the AVI your customer wants you to use.

    Regards.
  • UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Thanks Dave,

    I see an option for converting to Windows Media in Streamclip so I am gonna assume that would work for them in PC land and be better than AVI.

    Al
  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (18,125 points)
    Needs to stream.

    Not sure if you are referring to a true RTSP or "faststart" file here. In any case, I would likely go with a DivX/MP3 if forced to create AVI content but am still not sure what connection speeds are being targeted. Mid-quality would probably target an 854x480 file at something like 1650 Kbps or a 640x360 at about 1350 Kbps. However, I would normally use Visual Hub for the conversion since it contains the a built-in DivX codec which doesn't conflict with the Perian component I keep installed in my QT component library.

    I get no audio though so far when exporting to AVI. Do I need to download something for QT ?

    If you are using the MPEG Streamclip "Export to AVI" work flow, then select "Uncompressed" audio compression. However, as previously indicated, this work flow produces a larger than the Visual Hub DivX/MP3 file I mentioned above.

    ADDED:
    Totally agree with Dave here regarding AVI files. Don't really like WMV either, but at least it is a better option if you have Flip4Mac installed. Apple equivalent for up-to-date compression format, of course, would be an H.264/AAC file but many Windows users continue to live in the past for "compatibility" rather than moving up to more modern compression formats. Still, I guess a "client" is a client...

  • UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Still waiting to hear from customer.
    As far as streaming I think I am referring to simple fast start.

    Anybody know why when I use streamclip to convert to Windows media it only converts the first 30 seconds. Maybe a limitation unless you pay etc.., I don't see anything on their website to indicate that and it has always been free. Or maybe my FLip 4 Mac needs updating.
    Thanks,
    Al
  • varjak paw Level 10 Level 10 (169,810 points)
    You need the paid version of Flip4Mac: WMV Studio, Studio Pro or Studio Pro HD. The free version just has demo capabilities for export and, as is noted on the Streamclip web site, is limited to 30 seconds of output.

    Regards.
  • UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Ah ok, I didn't see that written.
    I will gladly pay.
    Thanks,
    Al
  • UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Dave & John,
    Customer needs:
    Bit Rate -450kbps & 100kbps
    4:3 Ratio
    Windows Media Audio 9.2
    Windows Media Video 9
    * There target frame size is small like 320x240 if that...

    Bought the flip for mac plug in. There are a lot of options for diff bit rates. Should I choose constant CBR or variable VBR and when I watch the export using QT it is giving me a data rate (in the show info window) that is meaningless to me.

    Thanks,
    Al

    Message was edited by: UCanCallMeAl
  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (18,125 points)
    Bought the flip for mac plug in. There are a lot of options for diff bit rates. Should I choose constant CBR or variable VBR and when I watch the export using QT it is giving me a data rate (in the show info window) that is meaningless to me.

    Some background information to consider:
    1) The target bit rate always varies to some degree depending on the graphic complexity of the source content.
    2) Constant Bit Rate (CBR) encoding provides a more or less constant data rate at the expense of varying the quality dependent on the instantaneous graphic complexity of the source file. (Think of it as having a constant data rate with variable quality.)
    3) Variable Bit Rate (VBR) encoding varies the data rate in an attempt to keep the quality more or less constant. (Think of it as having a variable data rate with constant quality.)
    4) Fast start or streaming content always plays most smoothly if the playback data rate is kept lower than the target user's ISP average connection speed.

    Since you did not indicate which version of Flip4Mac you purchases, I don't know if you have the option to actually set multi-pass average and peak bit rate targets. If not, then you must use the Quality slider to "guesstimate" single pass video data rates whether creating CBR or VBR conversions. (In this case for a 320x240 target resolution, you may want to try something like a quality setting of 25 and go up or down depending on the results for your particular source file. Be advised that when you test the file for playback, you will likely see two different data rates in the "Inspector" window. The first (lower reading) is for the raw cacheing WMV data which is partially decompresses as it is cached. When finished cacheing, the number will likely double in size as it switches to monitoring the partially decompressed data actually used by the QT player. As I did not know if your client's 550 (450 + 100) Kbps bit rate target was for the WMV content or the cached content, I suggested the initial 25 quality rating as a good starting point for your own preliminary output testing.

    As to audio bit rate targets, it is more common on the mac to use CBR encoding for which the Flip4Mac codec has a 96 Kbps @ 44.1 KHz pop-up option that most closes your client's target.

    I assume this should be enough information to get you started...

  • UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Wow! Yes that will get me started.

    Misc:
    I bought the FLip 4 Mac version that gives you some pre-determined rates like:" CBR 16x9 Dial Up" etc..,
    So I have a lot of choices but can't control everything. I don't see where i can set a quality setting. Must be the better version of Flip. I bought the$49 upgrade. I have a lot of choices that combine CBR or VBR and download speed like dial up vs. broadband.

    I sent the company contact a sample wmv at 480 x270 (16x 9) and she said that was fine. But I hope she realizes the finished video is about 8 mins long. She didn't give me any more info about their ISP etc.., She said the video was going on its own new page.

    The 2 speeds (450 and 100) were for high speed and low speed users.

    There is very little movement in the video: just a man talking about his ATV. Nothing moves quick.

    Thanks for all the expertise.
    Al
  • Jon Walker Level 6 Level 6 (18,125 points)
    I bought the$49 upgrade.

    This is the one I described as having only single-pass CBR and VBR capabilities. If you create your own test profile, a window will open having the "Quality" slider under the "Video" tab. This comes in handy for the testing manual nuances and, when/if you like the test results, you can save the profile for further use by editing it to rename it using a descriptor denoting its specific use.

    The 2 speeds (450 and 100) were for high speed and low speed users.

    Oops! I interpreted the 450 to be 450 Kbps for video and 100 Kbps for audio which is as low as I would normally go when creating H.264/AAC 320x240 content for iPod Classic 5th use some years ago. I tend to consider 768 Kbps data rates as low speed, 1.7 Mbps as low-medium, 2.5 Mbps as high-medium speed content, and anything higher than that as being SD or HD high-speed use. I normally stay in the 2 Mbps to 3 Mbps range for SD (640x480 to 854x480) content. Frankly, I don't even bother with anything as low as 100 Kbps and do not expect anything approaching good quality for "normal" full-motion source content. (I.e., I normally use 160 Kbps for stereo audio alone and usually add a DD 5.1 AC3 track for content streamed within my home.)

  • UCanCallMeAl Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    jon,
    When you refer to test profile, this is a MpegStream Clip thing not a Flip for mac thing right.
    Not sure what that test profile looks like but I will figure it out.

    The speeds:
    Yea I wasn't specific. They are saying they have 2 different kinds of visitors I guess- high speed and low speed. This is a tractor company and maybe they are considering "farmers" high speed capabilities in the mid west or something:)

    Thanks for those specs. Yea my tests for 100KBPS looked like crap.
    They haven't told me what their download speeds are yet.
    They said the 480 X 270 frame size is good and that is what I am shooting for.

    I will post back if a prob. Thanks for all your knowledge.

    Al