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DVD-R versus DVD+R

I am preparing to use iDVD to burn a quick time iPhoto slideshow. I plan to duplicate the DVD once I have a master copy.

Given that this is all I plan to do, is there any reason that a -R would be better/worse than +R?

I am looking for the format that would be the most compatible across the widest range of DVD players. I suspect at this point in time it makes little difference, but would appreciate hearing any opinions. Thanks.

2009 iMac, Mac OS X (10.6.4)

Posted on Feb 17, 2011 1:47 PM

Reply
15 replies

Feb 17, 2011 3:00 PM in response to Tom Kirkman

I agreee. In case you want to know more about why:

More information on DVD-R v. DVD+R here:

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2279

http://www.diffen.com/difference/DVD%2BRvsDVD-R

and (about coating quality):

http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media

and that last article includes information on where (in the US) you can buy Taiyo Yuden media.

Feb 17, 2011 8:29 PM in response to Tom Kirkman

DVD+R media is newer than DVD-R and contains better error correction. However, many older DVD players won't play DVD+R media, so for best compatibility we recommend DVD-R media.


You don't say how you plan to duplicate your master disc. If you plan on having a third party company make the dups, I suggest you ask them which media they prefer and recommend.


If you plan on making the dups yourself, create a disk image file out of iDVD (an option under FILE) and make your burns using the disk image file (.img) using Apple's Disk Utility or Roxio's Toast Titanium. Note that the disk image is independent of the media type you plan on using.

Feb 19, 2011 11:23 PM in response to Tom Kirkman

I make lots of DVDs using iMovie 06 and iDVD 11.

I have found DVD+R to be more reliable than DVD-R. The only disadvantage to DVD+R is that DVD players manufacture before 2003 may not play them.

DVD+R disks are better than DVD-R disks because of the increased error correction technique used for the newer +R type.

In addition to the optimum power control profiles, DVD+R also gives four times more scratch space for the drive to calibrate the laser on; more space can only improve the calibration quality. So, in short, DVD+R media exists to simply produce better burns and protect your Movie.

I would recommend Taiyo Yuden DVD+Rs. They are made in Japan.

http://www.supermediastore.com/

Feb 22, 2011 4:29 PM in response to Ziatron

...and last longer.



Seriously?



Exactly which white papers have you read to back up the assertion that plus media has better archival properties?



I always though they were both equally bad in terms of burned dvd's / organic dyes quickly fading; that tend to oxidize over time. Some last as little as a few weeks /months before they can't be read by the very computer that burned them to disc while others will last years, .... but very rarely do they endure for decades.



IMO, nothing you burn on your mac will compare to commercially pressed media (short of using archival gold media and perhaps not even then).




User uploaded file

Feb 22, 2011 8:44 PM in response to SDMacuser

Exactly which white papers have you read to back up the assertion that plus media has better archival properties?


I never said that I referred to ANY "white paper".

I am primarily relying on my own experience and testing. While I usually prefer to use DVD+R in my work, there are the occasional requests for DVD-R. Even though I use the same high quality DVD media the DVD-Rs experience a higher failure rate over time in use.

I have generally considered the superiority of DVD+R to be fairly well-established. This probably doesn't qualify as a “white paper” but below are some of the facts regarding the newer DVD+R standard.

(My apologies for the length, I tried to edit it down.)

"DVD-R *** for data preservation for three reasons: inferior error correction, inferior ‘wobble’ tracking, and the fact its data writing methods look like an un-needed halfway point between CD-R and DVD+R."

"On DVD-R, they tried to solve the problem with something called ‘pre-pits’ where spikes in the amplitude of the wobble appear due to pits fully out of phase with the rest of the track"

"Unfortunately, this method as one flaw: due to electric noise in the laser pickup, it would be very easy to miss the pre-pit (or read one that wasn’t actually there) if the disc were damaged or spun at fast speeds. The time to read a pre-pit is 1T (roughly .0000000038th of a second), which even for a computer can be easy to miss. DVD-R traded hard to track frequency changes for hard to read wobble-encoded data."

"On a DVD+R, however, they came up with a much better method. Instead of changing the frequency of the wobble, or causing amplitude spikes in the wobble, they use complete phase changes. Where CD-R’s and DVD-R’s methods make you choose between either easy wobble tracking or easy ATIP reading, DVD+R’s method makes it very easy to track the wobble, and also very easy to encode data into the wobble. DVD+R’s method is called ADIP (ADdress In Pre-groove), which uses a phase change method."

"The DVD-R specification states that for every 192 bits, 64 of them are not protected under any scheme, 24 of them are protected by 24 bits of parity, and the last 56 bits are protected by another 24 bits of parity. This weird (to put it mildly) scheme allows you to easily scramble or lose 25% of the data that is required to read your disk! This information is almost more important than the actual data burned on the disc itself.

The DVD+R specification, however, states that for every 204 bits of information, it is split into four blocks of 52 bits containing 1 sync bit to prevent misreading because of phase changes, 31 bits of data, and a 20 bit parity (that protects all 32 bits of data)."

"In addition to the optimum power control profiles, DVD+R also gives four times more scratch space for the drive to calibrate the laser on; more space can only improve the calibration quality. So, in short, DVD+R media exists to simply produce better burns and protect your data better."

Full article:

http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media

Feb 22, 2011 8:58 PM in response to Ziatron

I've read that already a number of times. It hardly qualifies as a white paper. In fact, it hardly qualifies as a study. And nothing in the data presents any indication whatsoever of better archival properties.



I don't want to get into which is better Minus or Plus. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. The fact is most Dvd set top players today can read both (hence no need to wage the war). Older Macs and set top dvd players like mine do just fine with Dvd-R (minus media). Your own mileage may vary depending on the age of your mac or set top dvd player.



User uploaded file

Feb 24, 2011 9:41 PM in response to SDMacuser

My experience has been the same as yours. I use Verbatim Archival Gold DVD-R disks and have no problems with them playing on any player, with the exception of my Toshiba which seemed to misread the audio volumes and played the opposite of what I selected to be louder/softer. Other than that, DVD-Rs have worked well for my family and friends.

DVD-R versus DVD+R

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