Previous 1 2 Next 22 Replies Latest reply: Jan 17, 2014 1:57 PM by Walther Schoonenberg
ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
I recently discovered that overwriting files selected in Finder with the little preview expanded is not possible because finder keeps the file in use. When preview is collapsed the problem does not occur.
This happens i.e. when exporting a pdf in Indesign, check the size of the file and then later re-export the pdf. This is very annoying and I think Finder should not lock the file when showing the file with preview expanded. The file is not really in use by another app.

Apple please fix this small bug but annoying bug.

MacPro, Mac OS X (10.6.6)
  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (30,460 points)
    I recently discovered that overwriting files selected in Finder with the little preview expanded is not possible


    It's perfectly possible here, assuming by "preview" you're talking about the preview shown when you select a file in column view in a Finder window. I just tested to make sure. Works fine.

    Apple please fix this small bug but annoying bug.


    You're not talking to Apple here, you're talking to other Mac users.
  • ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thomas A Reed wrote:
    It's perfectly possible here, assuming by "preview" you're talking about the preview shown when you select a file in column view in a Finder window. I just tested to make sure. Works fine.

    Yepp, I mean the preview in column view in Finder. As seen in the message below I do get the error when overwriting a selected file with preview expanded when exporting in Indesign CS4 (and only to a selected file, every other file name works fine).

    +Cannot save to the file "test.pdf". You may not have permission or the file may be in use.+

    You're not talking to Apple here, you're talking to other Mac users.

    Sure, but someone might pick it up
  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (30,460 points)
    I cannot duplicate that behavior here, though I don't have Indesign. I tried with another Adobe app (Photoshop Elements), and was able to save over the file just fine, regardless of whether the preview was displayed in the Finder. I don't know what's going on, but if it only happens in Indesign, it's not a bug in the Finder as you seem to be suggesting. Are you able to duplicate the behavior in any other apps?

    You're not talking to Apple here, you're talking to other Mac users.

    Sure, but someone might pick it up


    I suppose that's possible, in much the same way that it is possible that I could throw a message in a bottle in Lake Erie and expect it to be found by a friend on the English coast. Technically possible, but putting the letter in the mail with the right address on it would be more effective. If you truly believe this is a bug, you can let Apple know with the [Apple feedback page|http://www.apple.com/feedback>... but based on what you've said so far, that would be a waste of someone's time. If it is a bug, you need to gather more information if you expect your report to be taken seriously.
  • ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thomas A Reed wrote:
    I cannot duplicate that behavior here, though I don't have Indesign. I tried with another Adobe app (Photoshop Elements), and was able to save over the file just fine, regardless of whether the preview was displayed in the Finder. I don't know what's going on, but if it only happens in Indesign, it's not a bug in the Finder as you seem to be suggesting. Are you able to duplicate the behavior in any other apps?

    I think it is bug in Finder because when I look in the Activity Monitor and inspect Finder and look at open files my file is listed there! So Finder has the file still open where I think it should close it after generating the preview.
  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (30,460 points)
    I think it is bug in Finder because when I look in the Activity Monitor and inspect Finder and look at open files my file is listed there!


    I see the same thing, but that does not prevent me from saving over the file, in any app that I have tested. Something else is going on.

    I asked you earlier, but you didn't answer: can you reproduce this behavior with anything other than InDesign?
  • ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thomas A Reed wrote:
    I see the same thing, but that does not prevent me from saving over the file, in any app that I have tested. Something else is going on.

    I asked you earlier, but you didn't answer: can you reproduce this behavior with anything other than InDesign?

    There are many ways for an application to overwrite a file, different API's with different side effects. I have not found another app yet that experiences the same problem, but that doesn't mean that there's nothing wrong with Finder.

    I'm able to overwrite the file over and over again as long as I don't expand preview in column view when selecting the file. In this case Finder has the file not listed as opened. I'm still convinced that when Finder generates a preview it should close the file when finished. Then there would be no problem overwriting the file no matter how Indesign tries to check if the file is ready to be overwritten.
  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (30,460 points)
    There are many ways for an application to overwrite a file, different API's with different side effects.


    As a former developer, I'm well aware of the APIs. However, you don't actually think that Adobe managed to find APIs that nobody else is using, in any other software that either of us has tried, including other Adobe products, do you? That does not make sense at all.

    The fact that Activity Monitor reports the file as being open does not mean anything, since that fact does not affect me in any way at all, nor does it affect you in any way except when doing one specific thing in InDesign. We do not know what Activity Monitor is actually reporting, how often that list of open files is refreshed and many other things.

    What you have demonstrated thus far is a problem with InDesign. Most likely, knowing Adobe, they have misused the APIs by relying on undocumented behavior or they are still using deprecated APIs somewhere in the InDesign code. This should be reported to Adobe.
  • ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    As an active developer, I'm also aware that leaving files open is bad programming. I wrote a little program to demonstrate what might be going on. This program just opens a file using fopen("path to file","r") and then waits. When this program is running, Indesign cannot overwrite the file in question but when this program quits it can.
    As you pointed out that Adobe cannot manage to find APIs that nobody else is using, I find it unlikely that they are using undocumented features or deprecated APIs. They somehow managed to check if another process has opened the file which Indesign wants to overwrite, as proven with my little program. Without my program running, Finder is the only other candidate as demonstrated in earlier posts.

    P.S. No offence, but it seems that you are not an Adobe fan.
  • thomas_r. Level 7 Level 7 (30,460 points)
    I find it unlikely that they are using undocumented features or deprecated APIs.


    Adobe is known to do so from time to time, as are many developers.

    P.S. No offence, but it seems that you are not an Adobe fan.


    I am neither a fan nor a "hater"... simply aware of Adobe's history.
  • garbageman Level 2 Level 2 (365 points)
    {quote}Without my program running, Finder is the only other candidate as demonstrated in earlier posts.{quote}

    I tested this in ID CS5 and could overwrite the file no problem showing the preview. Not only that but I left the quicklook open and was able to save the file and then I left the get info window open and saved the file no problem. Then I left the pdf open in Acrobat Pro and received the file in use as expected. Not sure what the problem is but I'm with the others here and doubt the Finder is the problem.
  • ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    There are more people who are experiencing the same problem, as can be read on an Adobe forum at:
    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2847524

    I have reproduced the problem (exporting pdf) in Indesign CS3 (5.0.4) and CS4 (6.0.6) on multiple computers all running OSX 10.6.6.
    I'm now installing a trial of Adobe CS5 and check if the problem has been solved (or been worked around the Finder issue).

    Let you know how things are going...
  • ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thomas A Reed wrote:
    Adobe is known to do so from time to time, as are many developers.

    My point was that Apple developers could easily have made a mistake as Adobe's. I'm not trying to blame anyone, just trying to get the problem solved!
  • ublue Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    ublue wrote:
    Let you know how things are going...


    Just installed Adobe Design Premium CS5 and the problem still exists.

    Scenario:
    1. Open an Indesign document
    2. File -> Export...
    3. Open a Finder window and select the file just created in column view with preview expanded
    4. Leave the Finder window open with the file selected and go back to Indesign
    5. File -> Export... to the same file, replace and voilà, after some seconds a message appears reporting file in use
    6. Close the Finder window or select another file
    7. File -> Export... to the same file, replace and now it succeeds.

    Looks like a Finder problem to me!
  • RodneyW Level 4 Level 4 (3,030 points)
    Looks like a Finder problem to me!


    I do not have Adobe Design CSx .... but I've tested this with numerous other programs, and have been unable to replicate the issue.

    If it were a Finder problem, would it not happen to all applications?
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