Frustration with Pages to ePub page breaks

Hi. I am losing my mind and hoping someone can help...

I am creating a non-traditional book (a catalog) in Pages, for use in both PDF and ePub formats (for iBooks on iPad). I CANNOT get the page breaks in Pages retained when exported to ePub and viewing on the iPad. I used the "ePub best practices" document as my starting template, then changed it by modifying the layout (margins, etc.), and modifying the styles to the font, color and style I want for look of the PDF version. At one point I had 80% or so of the page breaks in ePub, then after making some edits in the document and exporting again, many of the page breaks disappeared. I've also had headlines and such literally disappear in the ePub version.

The best thing would be to have a method of manually entering a page break in Pages that I KNOW would represent a page break in ePub. Is this possible?

Please help!

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.6)

Posted on Feb 22, 2011 5:06 AM

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18 replies

Feb 22, 2011 7:54 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

For a while...then not so much.

I tried creating an entirely new document in pages, setting up each "chapter" as a new section. That appeared to work. However, I kept losing things - some of my "chapter numbers" just disappear in the ePub version, or sometimes the chapter title would disappear, etc. I cleared that up (I think) by just keeping the font settings simple - simple font (Arial), just plain black color (I was trying to use gray to help set things apart)...then all the page breaks I had just went away. What the ****?!

Mar 1, 2011 8:50 AM in response to Pat43081

I eventually gave up with Pages epub export all together when trying to get my book ready. I could NEVER get the page breaks to work, even following all of Apple's guidelines and templates. I eventually took my word doc, exported to HTML, tagged all chapter headings with h1 tags, and then used Calibre to create the epub. Worked great!

Message was edited by: mrob44

Message was edited by: mrob44

Mar 1, 2011 9:47 AM in response to Pat43081

However, I kept losing things - some of my "chapter numbers" just disappear in the ePub version, or sometimes the chapter title would disappear, etc.

If by disappear you mean they crossover and appear at the tail end of the preceding chapter, then this may be a result of not applying the "Keep with following paragraph" Pagination & Break option to tack empty lines and/or Chapter Number lines above the Chapter Name line to the Chapter Line entry.

I cleared that up (I think) by just keeping the font settings simple - simple font (Arial), just plain black color (I was trying to use gray to help set things apart)...then all the page breaks I had just went away. What the **?!

Unfortunately, this is all too common with Pages. While the application is simple to use, the ePUB output can be very unstable with small changes in formatting causing great changes to the ePUB output. If you like using Pages, don't mind using a "tag & flag" method of formatting graphics and chapter breaks/names, and want a more stable output, then one alternative would be to export your "tagged and Flagged" file from Pages as an RTF or DOC file and use Legend Maker to generate the ePUB and/or ZIP HTML Kindle compatible eBooks.

User uploaded file

Mar 2, 2011 12:59 AM in response to Jon Walker

Pages as an RTF or DOC file


See previous discussion on the two obsolete formats in relation to structure information, e.g. the Online Help in Adobe InDesign 3.0 and higher advise that RTF has to support for marking table structure. The problem in relation to structure information is precisely the same as the problem in relation to colour information (PS as interchange format has no support for the ICC file format, the TrueType/Unicode file format, and transparency). When we wrote the GretagMacbeth iQueue ICC colour server documentation a decade ago, we included a table over which interchange formats in fact support what. Technical writers seem either to have lost the freedom to inform the customer about facts, or to be ignorant of the facts themselves 🙂.

/hh

Mar 2, 2011 7:55 AM in response to Henrik Holmegaard

See previous discussion on the two obsolete formats in relation to structure information, e.g. the Online Help in Adobe InDesign 3.0 and higher advise that RTF has to support for marking table structure.

Not sure if you are referring to "Forum" discussions here or external "discussions" for which the Adobe InDesign Online Help reference is one example. Please provide URLs for specific topics/discussions if you really want others to read/review them.

The problem in relation to structure information is precisely the same as the problem in relation to colour information (PS as interchange format has no support for the ICC file format, the TrueType/Unicode file format, and transparency). When we wrote the GretagMacbeth iQueue ICC colour server documentation a decade ago, we included a table over which interchange formats in fact support what. Technical writers seem either to have lost the freedom to inform the customer about facts, or to be ignorant of the facts themselves.

I infer from your comments that you are not familiar with Legend Maker and its work flow which allows the use of almost any word processor to create ePUB (and/or Kindle) eBook project files. As previously indicated above, the alternate work flow mentioned does not rely on format embedded "structural information." When I say "tag & flag," I am referring to the entry of specific structural details supplied as "commands" within the file. For instance,

#######

i.e., seven pound signs on a line by itself, will unconditionally create a page break (new file segment) in your reading document. On the other hand, an entry like

bookmark: Chapter 1 - In The Beginning

on its own line would create both a page break (new file segment) and and a TOC menu entry using the text between the colon and the carriage return. Text enclosed in two "broken brackets" automatically creates citation and footnote entries, the latter of which can be automatically placed at the end of your file or "bookmarked:" at an alternative location.

Of course, there are some constraints. Header, Footer, auto generated TOCs, font faces, multiple line spacing etc. should all be removed and it is recommended your text be converted 18-point Times New Roman as a "baseline" on which the relative size of other sized text (book title, chapter numbers, chapter names, headings, sub-headings, etc.) will be based. This 18-point text baseline produces a displayed font on the order of the 12-point Pages font when displayed in iBooks as size four or five text. You can, of course, use a different "baseline" if you prefer but I find the recommended size is easier to work with in Pages without having to re-scale the project window when creating files.

In any case, there are many pros and cons here regarding the use of Legend Maker. As I am neither related to Michael Zapp nor work for ZappTek, I'm not here to sell you on this product but merely point out that the eBooks it produces have a much more controlled and consistent output at the expense of having to "tag & flag" the text, TOC, endnotes, images, movies, and/or audio content. Depending on the user's requirements, some would find the utility highly functional while other would likely consider it a royal pain to use. I personally like having multiple options available and switch back and forth between both applications as may be needed for any given project. Basically, some features work better in Pages while others simply work better in Legend Maker.

User uploaded file

Mar 2, 2011 12:45 PM in response to Jon Walker

I infer from your comments that you are not familiar with Legend Maker and its work flow which allows the use of almost any word processor to create ePUB (and/or Kindle) eBook project files.


I'm struggling to understand if you are trying to use a private tagging system and a file format such as RTF that does not preserve some types of structure information? The Adobe help information was only introduced into the discussion because it has been available a long time,

1. A key distinction of the three levels of structure is the presence or lack of a logical structure tree that supports and informs the author's content.
2. Unstructured Adobe PDF files
3. Do not have a logical structure tree. All content is treated as a single unit without any hierarchies or relationships.
4. You can save unstructured files to other formats, such as RTF, usually with good results. The resulting files retain the author's text and recognize paragraphs as paragraphs. All other formatting, including formatting for basic text, tables, and lists, is lost.

In general, one should try to work with public DTD Document Type Definitions that support the unified and universal standard character superset, and that support the type of structure information that is important to one's work. The caveat is that DTD's do not necessarily support interoperable structure types which is why there is such a thing as tag remapping, for instance, ISO 19005 PDF/A mandates that custom structure types must be remapped to standard XMP structure types and ECMA 388 mandates the same for W3 XSD.

Hope this helps,

/hh

Mar 2, 2011 3:56 PM in response to Henrik Holmegaard

I'm struggling to understand if you are trying to use a private tagging system and a file format such as RTF that does not preserve some types of structure information?

No need to struggle. I thought it it was quite obvious that the RTF or DOC file simply provided a medium for storing the basic text and the honoring of low level structures such as paragraphs while "reserved" words were used as commands to provide user specified optional structure during document generation.( I.e., I want page breaks to appear when and where I place them or Chapter Numbers and Chapter Name lines to be centered when I center them.)

In general, one should try to work with public DTD Document Type Definitions that support the unified and universal standard character superset, and that support the type of structure information that is important to one's work.

Exactly. However, it is not important that they adhere to any industry-wide or commercial standard in their project form in my work. Further, it is the responsibility of the product generation software to ensure that the resulting target files adhere to the standards required for proper reading on a targeted reading device and to maintain compatibility as these standards may change or be extended over time. My only real concern is whether or not the ePUB (or Kindle) file looks the way I wanted it to look and does so on a consistent basis. As the OP pointed out, Pages does not have a reliably stable output and making relatively minor changes to a project file can often produce unexpected drastic changes in the final ePUB file seemingly without rhyme or reason that require hours or days to troubleshoot. In short, I could care less if the the tag remapping is of a public or private, standard or non-standard nature... as long as it works. And, as I have already stated, the indicated app is an alternative that may or may not appeal to any specific user.

User uploaded file

Mar 2, 2011 4:21 PM in response to Jon Walker

It is not important that they adhere to any industry-wide or commercial standard in their project form in my work


No cause for concern, if you clarify that (a point I may have missed in speed reading). The headache is that interchange formats, character-glyph models and colour-colourant models from the mid-nineteen eighties seem to survive, not by virtue of working, but by virtue of inhabiting the public imagination 🙂.

/hh

Sep 5, 2011 7:44 PM in response to Pat43081

Try putting the first line on the new page after the page break into "Title" style from the style menu (you can always modify how it looks). Under TOC in the Inspector make sure that only that style is checked. I don;t know if this will mess up your table of contents as I'm not using one. But it fixed the page break problem when I exported to epub.

Feb 11, 2012 10:17 PM in response to Pat43081

After an insane amount of testing, here are the unwritten rules that I have uncovered (so far) regarding how Pages exports to ePub.



- The items checked to be used in your TOC (whether you actually have one in your document or not) are what dictate the page/section breaks. This is hugely important because it effects EVERYTHING else, including formatting.



- Using the option to "Use first page as book cover image" will do so, but will effectively suck it out of the actual book when it displays so that your book will "open" to whatever page is next. This sort of stinks if you would like your book to open to the actual Title Page. One solution to this is to turn this option OFF when exporting, and BE SURE to set the title of your book to one of the Paragraph Styles that you included in your TOC list (see above). This will put your title in the auto-generated TOC *created by your reader* (we'll call this the "Reader TOC"), but it will allow your first page to remain your Title Page and should prevent problems with your formatting.



- It would seem that ANY time you start a new section in an ePub (Title, Preface, Chapter, etc… and not to be confused with a Section Break in the Pages document itself) it MUST start with a TOC marked style. If you don't you will start to find your formatting will change semi-randomly (I noticed it in left justified headlines becoming centered). You CAN manually modify the format of the text once you have set the correct style (if you want to change the justification or something).



- Use of the Insert Page/Section Break menu options will have little or no effect in the ePub itself. You can keep them in your Pages document if you like, but *it is the TOC marked styles that completely dictate the section/page breaks in the ePub export.*



- The auto-generated Table of Contents that Pages can create will be dropped in your ePub. The Reader TOC (the actual one used by the readers) will be recreated by the TOC marked sections as mentioned above. So, you might as well leave it out of a Pages document if you are only exporting to ePub. However, most Reader TOC's are not actually present in the text of the book, which is a little weird. To include a TOC in the book itself, you will need to manually create one (without page numbers since ePub's are reflowable), and then manually link it to "bookmarks" within your book. Be sure to use a TOC marked style for the header ("Table of Contents") so it starts on it's own page. Then go through your book, bookmarking sections that you want as TOC entries. The Link Inspector in the inspector pane is where you will find the bookmarking options. If, like me, you want to add, say, chapter titles as entries in your TOC, then find that title in your text, select it, then hit the "+" to add it as a bookmark. Once you have bookmarked all your sections, then go back to the text in your TOC, select an entry, and hyperlink it to one of your bookmarks. Repeat. The manual TOC will be visible in your book, and clickable to your chapters/sections.



- Some formatting works, some doesn't. You might have to experiment here. I would stay away from anything too "non-standard", such as rules and borders. Margin padding seems to be okay, as does BOLD and ITALIC. Text size will also apply, but some readers reset this, so don't count on it.



- If you can set a font beyond sans-serif or serif, I haven't found a way to do it. Readers are probably going to reset this anyway. Think "web-fonts" available in standard HTML at best.



- You CAN include graphics, but they MUST be "inline" and NOT "floating". This is nice if you want to include some simple graphic ligatures to mark the end of a chapter or something.





Hope it helps… Good luck!

Mar 6, 2012 7:16 AM in response to limtc

As far as I am aware, general epub ebooks let the font be set by the user based on their choice of reader settings. There may be a way to specifically set a preferred font and or font class (serif/sans-serif), but I don't see how you can do it from within pages. The font settings of the pages document do not seem to be passed into the epub document on export.


Ebooks are still a developing media, and like the web used to be, they are trying to separate content from style. Think CSS. In general practice, you should always allow the user to dictate the details of the reading environment. If you need more control over formating and style, you might want to consider Apple's iBook Author format (which is different than general open epub and has locked-in DRM specific to Apple devices), or even PDF. The general epub format is a simple, reflowable version based off XHTML and CSS. Pages' "export to epub" option is a fairly rudimentary output in a somewhat older version of the epub standard. Why Apple has chosen to make it so difficult to get content into epub 3.0 without DRM, I can't say. I suspect that they would rather you be locked to their devices. Pretty lame IMO, considering they were so instrumental in the whole "desktop publishing" era. It is what it is, and I have not yet found a resonable alternative to Pages for creating non-DRM ebooks on a Mac (short of manually coding the files in something like Stanza).

Mar 26, 2012 3:18 PM in response to ealtson

Dear ealtson,


Thank you so much for your posts here. After days of pulling my hair, your comments have been a real lifesaver. I have only one question:


As you well know, when you have selected the first page to be used as the "book cover", epub removes it form the book. Now, I've tried turning off that option but as a result the graphic I have aligns left instead of being centered. My name next to the copyright simbol and the "1st edition" text also act weird.


Any suggestions?


Thank you very much!!!

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Frustration with Pages to ePub page breaks

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