Q: MacBook Pro 2011 17" hard freeze

XenoRising wrote:
What do you think all every one seems to be saying that even returning it hasnt had a driffents to the whole freezeing the os but not the mouse or sound issue..

I know the latest patch was said to fix it.. but it hasnt for so many...

Shall i take the time to have it replaced if so do they send one out and you then send it back or what?

I have no apple store near me unless you call bestbuy one... coughs.

Or shall I wait for a fix... I still think its driver related due to windows 7 working fine..

If you have applied the update to 10.6.7 and it's having some sort of issue which isn't related to:

3rd party hardware
software like virtualbox
webgl crashes in chrome


Then you should absolutely return it for a replacement, you have a DIFFERENT issue.

No more freezes so far for me, been doing heavy 2d and 3d graphics. Thing is a beast.

With all due respect, the issue isn't saying that the update has improved things. The issue is asserting that the problem is completely solved.

This thread is about random (but regular) freezes on the new machines, and a set of "symptoms" that can be observed when the freeze occurs. I do agree that there has been the injection of a number of other issues that represent different issues, with different solutions. We need to remember, though, that the tests that were offered as a way to cause the machines to fail were not exhaustive -- they merely created a set of circumstances that seemed to regularly drive machines to failure. Many, many of the crashes, as reported (and certainly in my case) had nothing at all to do with the tests -- they happened simply as part of using the machine for what it was designed. In my case, it was simply moving a bunch of data to the new machine and running stock applications as part of a new machine setup.

Even with my "failed" machine (PRIOR to the update), I was able to run at least one of the tests for 6 hours without creating a failure; other times the machine would crash within 30 seconds. I don't know if I was the absolute "first" person to offer the "Photobooth + /dev/null" test as a means to crash the machine, but it was original on my part, and formed the basis of my call to Apple to demonstrate the problem with absolutely no 3rd party software installed (whereas many of the other reports did involve using other applications, and could reflect outside influences). I wanted to remove any discussion of "reinstallation, reset and retry" so I could quickly move to a discussion about repair or replacement. (Wow - alliteration without even trying! )

I can still say for the record that following an update to 10.6.7, on a completely vanilla installation (apart from one monitoring tool, iStat Pro (simply to show me CPU temperatures), which worked for 14 hours prior to the next crash I experienced), the simple installation of software from a DVD was the trigger that caused the exact same lockup I had experienced before the update (note -- this was the INSTALLATION of the software -- Cubase Version 6, not the RUNNING of the software, although the installer could, in fact, be a factor. But I think you'd agree that installing software ought not to cause a system-wide lockup anytime. I would also note that I had been able to install this software on the failed machine PRIOR to the update successfully -- indicating that there was no direct cause-and-effect between the installer and the freeze.). The system was not running any third party software or extensions at that time (apart from that monitoring tool, which I do agree could be a problem, but since it had run for many hours without causing a problem, is only a dashboard application and was only in "monitoring mode" -- not changing behaviour of the system (to my knowledge), I have concluded that it is unlikely that this was the cause of the freeze) and no third-party hardware or memory at all.

I am the first to say that the update seems to have improved things. I WANT this machine to work. The concern I still have is that categorically declaring that the problem has been "completely solved" by the update is anecdotal at best -- clearly, it has solved a large number of issues for many of those affected -- that's good. Asserting that it solves everything (and therefore nobody should have any further concerns about buying this model of machine) is, in my humble view, premature (just as it would be wrong for me to widely declare that nobody should buy this machine because it will fail). Such a declaration would require detailed engineering knowledge of precisely what the problem was (not speculation -- engineering design knowledge) and a full understanding of precisely what was changed in the update to address this. I'm not trying to be condescending at all here -- please forgive me if you do have in-depth knowledge of these things... I know I don't.

The bottom line is that this looks like a GREAT machine -- I want one. I'm having a replacement shipped to me (hopefully this week), and I will test it thoroughly after applying the latest update to see if I can make it fail as well. Twenty years of Apple use tells me that there's a good chance this machine will be a huge boost to my productivity and computing enjoyment. But, right now, when advising friends and family whether they should spend $2-3K on a new machine that is "rock solid", I'm suggesting they hold off just a bit for a little more evidence that these machines are every bit as reliable as the 5-year-old Core2Duo 17" I'm trying to replace...

For all those for whom the problem has been solved, that's Great! Enjoy your new beast!

For all those for whom the problem still exists, Apple should be prepared to help you get to a point either of satisfaction, or refund your money. It's not unusual to have growing pains with early adoption; the final outcome (satisfaction or disappointment) usually depends heavily on both parties' (Apple's and our) attitudes and efforts to resolve the issues.

In defense of another poster (oogie, I believe), I don't think it's spreading disinformation to raise doubts about whether the update has completely fixed the problem if, in one's own experience, this still appears to be the case.

Best,
Scott

Thank you Scott.
I couldn't have said it better but I was just going to let the bullies get on with it.
As I have reiterated there is enough evidence to believe the 10.6.7 may have improved issues for a lot of people but there is still plenty of evidence to show it has not fully resolved the issue and in some cases has done nothing to fix it.
Like you I have been a mac user for years and I have a lot of mac gear and I have never seen such major problems with one piece of equipment.
I desperately want one of these MacBook Pros - a 17" with the works - but there is enough evidence here and elsewhere to make me wait

Hey Scott,

I'm more or less on your side here. I got my machine back today, ran the test with macports and it froze. Then I updated to 10.6.7 and boost compiled just fine. This test failed every time before, never completed, and took at most 20 minutes until the machine froze. However, I'm still not ready to concede that it's fixed either, but perhaps I'm just paranoid. I've got a guy at work who is interested, and I told him to hold off. This is not a good first experience to have with macs.

I think one issue wonslung has is that there are folks here who are clearly having other problems, they haven't really bothered to read through the thread and understand what is being addressed here. Instead they are injecting more confusion into the conversation than information.

To address oogle directly. He says: All these people still have the same issue. I look though the list and I notice one person I have had direct email contact with who clearly does not have this problem. This individual does have issues that are unrelated to the problem we are discussing though. I'm sure if I went through his list I'd find many others in the same situation. While oogle's intention may not be to mislead, the end result is the same as disinformation.

Then you have that random guy who keeps pleading for someone to tell him if everything is OK. I find it odd someone would make a 3k purchasing decision based on the word of some anonymous folks in a discussion forum.

By the way. Does my disagreeing with someone make me a bully?

@Scott Hurd

I'm not going to quote your message because of it's size but i would like to respond to a couple of things you said:


This thread is about freezes, yes. But they are not entirely RANDOM freezes. They are freezes with a very clear cause which could be triggered pretty regularly. Originally i assumed they were random as well but as the thread progressed it became clear that they were not infact random and were possible to reproduce easily.


I agree that sometimes you couldn't trigger it right away but often rebooting the machine would cause it to be possible to create the same condition with about 70-80% accuracy. (basically, reboot, open photobooth, yes >/dev/null 8 times would cause it to crash 7 or 8 /10 times on a reboot) The reason i know this is because when i went to the apple store to demo the issue, i was able to easily make it happen on EVERY floor model prior to the update and on machines other people brought in.

I would say that if you are having a random freeze which CAN'T be easily reproduced then it's not the same one that this thread was about. I'm very sorry for your trouble.

As far as the misinformation quip it was basically in response to the list he posted, and saying that i should read macrumors forum. If you actually DO read that forum, it's clear that it fixed the problem for those users as well. Once you weed out the trolls, that is.

John,
This is a direct quote from Horniasty who you say doesn't have a problem

"I have installed the 10.6.7 update and it didn't help"

Now when I read this, it tells me the 10.6.7 update didn't fix the problem or am I missing something very subtle here?

Scanning for "people this update didn't help" isn't necessarily useful unless you look to see exactly what they wanted help with. The two lines following that quote are:

i still have that kind of artifacts ....png
and it just isn't working for me

Artifacts? What might those be? He provided a picture of the problem he was experiencing:

http://spiess.pl/lines.png

So getting a list of people saying: I installed 10.6.7 and I still have problems isn't terribly relevant unless those problems are the same as the ones this thread was created to address.

Hi,
I installed the latest update on my machine, but when I run the chrome test the machine freezes (I selected Integrated graphics and then ran the Chrome test)
Now when I use my regular applications it works without any issues (haven't tried CS5 yet)
1. should I return this mac? my 14 day return period ends this Saturday
2. or keep the machine since my regular work is not hampered?

Thanks in advance

the chrome test isn't a valid test.

@samirc

When we were working out diagnostic tests for this error some folks concluded that this test was more a result of Chrome than the particular issue at hand:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=13263706&#13263706

Quote: wonslung:

--------------
(snip)
I would say that if you are having a random freeze which CAN'T be easily reproduced then it's not the same one that this thread was about. I'm very sorry for your trouble.
(snip)
--------------

Sorry for the previous length... I'll try to be more brief...

I try to assume that people are working from a position of good intentions until there is clear evidence to the contrary or of malice. I think oogie's point is that there is still room for debate on whether the update has fully fixed the problems directly associated with this thread. My conclusion, from personal experience, is that this position is sound (you and I may differ on this). Even if the list of people presented to justify the point had some issues, I believe the intent was good, and the conclusion is still borne out by my own results.

At the end of the day, I believe we all actually want the same thing (and may, in fact, be in "violent agreement" )...

1) We WANT this thing to work -- it's a great machine;
2) We want to get the problems resolved, and the update certainly improves things;
3) We want to be able to advise others intelligently about what to purchase;

Best,
Scott

Scott Hurd wrote:
Sorry for the previous length... I'll try to be more brief...

oh, it wasn't meant as a criticism...you're fine.

I try to assume that people are working from a position of good intentions until there is clear evidence to the contrary or of malice. I think oogie's point is that there is still room for debate on whether the update has fully fixed the problems directly associated with this thread. My conclusion, from personal experience, is that this position is sound (you and I may differ on this). Even if the list of people presented to justify the point had some issues, I believe the intent was good, and the conclusion is still borne out by my own results.

I agree with you somewhat, but sometimes people spread misinformation without intending malice.
Also, i thought from his posts he was still on the fence as to whether or not he should purchase the machine. If he doesn't have the machine, hasn't tested the machine prior to the update or after it dropped, hasn't tested machines at the apple store, then i think he should defer to those who have.

At the end of the day, I believe we all actually want the same thing (and may, in fact, be in "violent agreement" )...

1) We WANT this thing to work -- it's a great machine;
2) We want to get the problems resolved, and the update certainly improves things;
3) We want to be able to advise others intelligently about what to purchase;

Best,
Scott

Again, i somewhat agree, but i feel confident in advising people to purchase a macbook pro 2011 15/17 inch model now. I didn't before. 10.6.7 did fix the issue which this thread was started for. That doesn't mean other issues don't exist. It doesn't mean that every single possible issue which could ever go wrong with a macbook pro was fixed. Hardware issues can still cause a very similar issue.

@John,
Thanks! I did try the 8 "yes" test but my machine did not freeze...

I'm gonna go a fresh insatll then if it keeps happening ill return it thank you

also to scout thank you for the info im gonna do the fresh install since you said basicly too lol

on a side note im loving my mac none the less this is my first mac and im already in love! i can run 26 second lifes in bootcamp with no lag.. i actually ran outta of bandwith... or i could of done more lol