Q: MacBook Pro 2011 17" hard freeze

Strange incident... Maybe related? When I ported data from my 2010 MacBook to my 2011 MacBook, I placed them on top of each other, while connected by FireWire. To make a long story short: *it is 100% verified that the WiFi signal is disturbing the graphic processor chip for the internal screen!* The connected Cinema Screen worked normally. First when I switched off the WiFi on the lower MacBook the screen function, trackpad a.s.o. came on! Mistakenly Apple Support and myself thought it was a loose connection because after I turned the new MacBook around, bottom up, to read the serialnumber, it worked... Maybe it is worth trying to switch off WiFi or get the MacBook away from an external WiFi source and see if the problem continues? Just an idea?

hpglunz wrote:
Strange incident... Maybe related? When I ported data from my 2010 MacBook to my 2011 MacBook, I placed them on top of each other, while connected by FireWire. To make a long story short: *it is 100% verified that the WiFi signal is disturbing the graphic processor chip for the internal screen!* The connected Cinema Screen worked normally. First when I switched off the WiFi on the lower MacBook the screen function, trackpad a.s.o. came on! Mistakenly Apple Support and myself thought it was a loose connection because after I turned the new MacBook around, bottom up, to read the serialnumber, it worked... Maybe it is worth trying to switch off WiFi or get the MacBook away from an external WiFi source and see if the problem continues? Just an idea?

I don't think that has anything to do with this thread....Also, i don't see this problem so it may be something broken on your model.

I really hope you are not working in any repair service, because if you conclude that the cause of a freeze is caused by a temperature that YOU find high, but that is in reality within specs, then you are very bad a diagnosis.

Indeed, if a temperature of a chip is within spec, it must not freeze, that's is the very purpose of specifying the operational max temperature, is to know when the temperature should be considered as a possible cause of a problem.
The fact that you find a temperature high, doesn't mean it's malfunctioning, the only thing that can decide if a chip temperature is above normality, it's the specs of the chip maker.

Here the specs of the Core i7 used on MBPs (see http://ark.intel.com) are stating that the Tjunction is 100°C, which means that temperatures below that limit are within normal operational temperature for this chip, and no issue should occur if you stay below that limit.

So you can't conclude that an issue is because of high temperature if it's within specs. Either you can conclude that the chip is faulty IF you can track the cause of the issue specifically to the chip itself, or that the cause of it is elsewhere.
In the case discussed here, the cause of the issue wasn't the CPU temperature, as stated by multiple person (and verified by myself), the CPU was still responding and functioning when the computer was frozen (responded to ping and could ssh, execute command line programs, kill processes...etc).

No one know the real cause of the issue for now (except the Apple engineer who tracked it and fixed it in 10.6.7), it may have been a GPU problem or a memory timing issue or a pure software issue (malfunctioning driver for example).

Exactly. Todays CPUS are designed to handle high temperatures over the lifetime of the product. While it's true temps can have an effect on the overall lifetime of a cpu, It's more a combination of temp and voltage than pure temp. As long as the temp is in range of the products specs then it shouldn't dramatically effect the lifetime of the product.

wonslung wrote:
" A spokesperson from Apple said that the Macbook is "well within the safety requirements set by the US Safety Authority" and that the CPU temperature was "within the settings from Intel" (Specifications for the Core i7-620M provide operating temperatures of 0-105C(min-max))."
from http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/172791,macbook-pro-helps-core-i7-hit-100-degr ees.aspx

I wouldn't doubt that my MBP hits 106C when I play the Sims 3, if I check again and it hits above 105 do you think I should call Apple and ask for a replacement... when the next model comes out?

If it doesn't go above 105 but consistently runs 85-100 C is playing the game regularly going to significantly lower the computers lifetime?

Message was edited by: kirkins

I tried to reproduce this problem with my brand new 15" MBP 2.0 i7 using the description on http://mbp-freeze.wikispaces.com/.
When I do this the fans are giving everything they have and the CPU hits about 95°C, but except for that there is no problem at all here.
This is my first MacBook Pro and I love it! Way better than all my previous windows laptops!

I'm still having random crashes here and there, I came into work today and switched to discrete gpu and crashed in a few seconds of use (just opened thunderbird, chrome... nothing too intensive)

Later I rebooted and it was crashing instantly, rebooted again and it crashed while using safari...

AS of right now it hasn't crashed yet but who knows for how long that will be...

I haven't been able to do a fresh clean install yet but I'm going to be taking it in to the genius bar and see what can be done if anything

kirkins wrote:

wonslung wrote:
" A spokesperson from Apple said that the Macbook is "well within the safety requirements set by the US Safety Authority" and that the CPU temperature was "within the settings from Intel" (Specifications for the Core i7-620M provide operating temperatures of 0-105C(min-max))."
from http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/172791,macbook-pro-helps-core-i7-hit-100-degr ees.aspx

I wouldn't doubt that my MBP hits 106C when I play the Sims 3, if I check again and it hits above 105 do you think I should call Apple and ask for a replacement... when the next model comes out?

If it doesn't go above 105 but consistently runs 85-100 C is playing the game regularly going to significantly lower the computers lifetime?

Message was edited by: kirkins

First of all...i don't know how you quoted me as saying that...i surely don't remember saying it...but anyways:

105 seems high to me....the highest i've been able to get mine is 87 C

If it were me i'd def seek a replacement.....that being said, it may very well be fine at that temp....personally anything over 100 would worry me.

Also, that article is referring to 2010 models....I'm not sure if it's accurate or not.

Message was edited by: wonslung

Just wanted to let you know that is the exact machine I have and I have since updated to 10.6.7 and since then I have not experienced one lock up running any programs. I have run final cut (rendered and saved movies in various resolutions) i have had three different CS5 programs open at once while listening to iTunes, and had my mail, and various other apps open. I will be honest and say I don't know much about monitoring CPU temp and things. But I have noticed that when running handbrake that handbraking movies takes about 15 minutes faster right now for whatever reason. I consistently hear the fans running when handbraking a movie but now with the update i notice my computer never getting too hot. So the update did something right...and NO FREEZES The place i actually noticed freezes most was in iTunes oddly enough but anyways...yeah....I don't think I'll be having anymore issues.

wonslung wrote:

kirkins wrote:

wonslung wrote:
" A spokesperson from Apple said that the Macbook is "well within the safety requirements set by the US Safety Authority" and that the CPU temperature was "within the settings from Intel" (Specifications for the Core i7-620M provide operating temperatures of 0-105C(min-max))."
from http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/172791,macbook-pro-helps-core-i7-hit-100-degr ees.aspx

I wouldn't doubt that my MBP hits 106C when I play the Sims 3, if I check again and it hits above 105 do you think I should call Apple and ask for a replacement... when the next model comes out?

If it doesn't go above 105 but consistently runs 85-100 C is playing the game regularly going to significantly lower the computers lifetime?

Message was edited by: kirkins

First of all...i don't know how you quoted me as saying that...i surely don't remember saying it...but anyways:

105 seems high to me....the highest i've been able to get mine is 87 C

If it were me i'd def seek a replacement.....that being said, it may very well be fine at that temp....personally anything over 100 would worry me.

Also, that article is referring to 2010 models....I'm not sure if it's accurate or not.

Message was edited by: wonslung

Thanks I think I'm just going to avoid playing games, that heat the CPU above 85. I bought this laptop for school/work using Adobe Creative Suite. I don't have any problems doing things I thought would be more intensive then gaming.

Example using After Effects, Cinema 4D, & Chrome at once.

I don't like the idea of sending in my laptop for a refurbished one.

I am considering opening it and replacing the thermal paste when the year warranty expires.

kirkins wrote:

I don't like the idea of sending in my laptop for a refurbished one.

I am considering opening it and replacing the thermal paste when the year warranty expires.

Wait a second, if you send it back, they don't send you a refurbished laptop.

They replace it.

Yes i'm a tech and if a temperature is within spec but at the limit in our tests, we all know that may be the client had the computer on his legs or in a warmer place or wathever reason and it got those 3 degrees hotter than in our test and thats why the computer crash sometimes. This is how you have to think in computer repairs to be succesful or you are gonna have clients that return twice and even three times for the same problem. I repeat running chips at their limit is not a good thing and more you are close to the limit more you have chance to passs those when it will be a warmer environment in spring for example. My hp elitebook i5 tjunction max temp is 105 degrees but hey, i runned prime95 for an hour and never reached more than 81 degrees. That is what i would call a relatively good vented machine.

All that being said i'm not entering in the "dissipating heat to other component that are not meant to handle those temperatures" chapter because i juste don't know the architecture of the inside of the macbook but when cpu is overheating most of the time the heat spread to other components in some way and those component may fail even if the cpu was in specs.

And i'm not saying those crash are all caused by heat, just that those macbook run much too hot.

I had the crash issue as well. Especially with Handbrake, World of Warcraft, Starcraft II and all kinds of GPU consuming applications. I sent it back within the two weeks return window and just got a new one. Now everything runs a lot better. I can have multiple games open, render videos meanwhile and still muck around with fullscreen/windowed mode and so on. Not a single crash. And best news: The Fans dont get crazy as they did before. Now they rarely reach 6200 RPM when before they maxed out the second I started a game.

Dcrocker wrote:

All that being said i'm not entering in the "dissipating heat to other component that are not meant to handle those temperatures" chapter because i juste don't know the architecture of the inside of the macbook but when cpu is overheating most of the time the heat spread to other components in some way and those component may fail even if the cpu was in specs.

And i'm not saying those crash are all caused by heat, just that those macbook run much too hot.

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face. I've owned a dell, hp and asus i7 based laptop all which run hotter than the current generation macbook pro. Whats worse is they not only ran hotter in general, but also got hot enough to cause 2nd degree burns to exposed skin.

Now, i'm not trying to say the macs don't get somewhat "hot" but at no point is there an area on the macbook pro that i can't hold my hand. I can't say this for any of the pc based laptops i've owned or tested. Apple catches a lot of crap for running hot but it just hasn't been my experience.

now, having said that, there are people who say they have them running with temps of 100-105c. If that had been my experience, i may be on the other side of the fence. The hottest my macbook pro gets is 87C according to monitoring tools, and much cooler to the touch.

wonslung wrote:

kirkins wrote:

I don't like the idea of sending in my laptop for a refurbished one.

I am considering opening it and replacing the thermal paste when the year warranty expires.

Wait a second, if you send it back, they don't send you a refurbished laptop.

They replace it.

Hmm... I will definitely call them. I was under the impression that they put your laptop in for repairs and send back someone else's repaired one. Also wanted to say I always use a cooling fan even if I'm just browsing the web. However I did not use a cooling fan the time the I got the CPU running 90-100 range because I was doing it for testing purposes. The computer was on a flat table.

Does anyone know if they send you the macbook and then you put your old one in a case and send it back... thats what happened when I had to send in my iPhone & also Xbox 360.

I ask because I'm in the last 4 weeks of school and can't afford not to have a high end laptop to use until the semester is over.