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Q: MacBook Pro 2011 17" hard freeze

Overheat? The fans revved and suddenly I could use nothing but the cursor. Had to hold down the power switch to kill all and then re-power & startup. I wasn't doing anything unusual, but I had 7 apps open and was amid an auto-backup to TimeMachine.

Just a little disillusioned and concerned, wondering if anyone else there has experienced a hard freeze like this.

macbook pro 17" 2011, Mac OS X (10.6.6)

Posted on Mar 1, 2011 11:15 AM

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Q: MacBook Pro 2011 17" hard freeze

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  • by hnrk,

    hnrk hnrk Oct 9, 2013 6:02 PM in response to Rensoom
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    Oct 9, 2013 6:02 PM in response to Rensoom

    Hey folks,

     

    I have (or had) the same problem as all of us have. I wrote about my experience a few weeks ago and I am following quite a few discussions here and in other forums. I would like to post my experience and opinions after reading and learning a lot. And: There is hope!

     

    My MacBook and official repair offers

    I am in Germany, got a 15 inch MacBookPro 8,2, 2,2 Ghz Quad-Core (new around 2.500 Euro). It was 28 month old when the glitches appeared first. It took quite a long time to discover the problem: dedicated GPU. I went to an Apple Premium Reseller who offered me a repair for 680 Euro after first giving me hope for a free out-of-warranty repair covered by Apple. I had many discussions with Apple in Stores and on the phone with Apple Care and the most important Apple people I could be able to talk to (as they said – but they did not make me feel happy at all). Finally the cheapest offer was changing the entire logicboard for 490 Euro. (In Germany there is no 320 USD repair flat.)

     

    Is this the right way of a premium manufacturer treating its customers?

    No. At the end and from the customer’s point of view it is a complete denial of Apples responsibility and not acceptable. It is not accordable with the promise of quality and service. I do not want to comment on that in detail. Everyone should decide for her- or himself, if she or he buys an Apple product again.

    I also thought about changing and boycott Apple, but apart from this incident my overall experience with Macs is great, furthermore I have so many licences for Mac software and other infrastructure, libraries for photos and music… it would cost me much time and money to change – and MacBooks are the ******* best notebooks I have ever used.)

     

    What about the workarounds and software solutions?

    Workarounds with GfxCardStatus or removing the driver for the dedicated GPU (so that it cannot be accessed and is completely deactivated) are described in detail in this forum. And they are ok for a while, to get back a running system after the first shock. If you get your machine running on the Intel chip only it will stay stable (in case of using GfxCardStatus booting might be an adventure, but from the point the software started it’s going to work).

    But hey, it’s absolutely not an acceptable solution: You did not buy a machine like that to run it on low graphics power and without the ability of connecting an external display or projector.

    Stop trying to find the failure with re-installing the system and changing things, it’s waste of time.

     

    Apple repair or not?

    At first I would have spent the money regarding the value of the machine, but the problem was: In case of replacement they always use boards produced the same time and way the defective boards where produced. (Maybe minor things might be changed during the production time of this board model, I do not know.) So there is a high risk that the problem occurs again with the replacement board, as a few of you experienced and reported here. You can be “lucky” getting the problem during the (ridiculous but common) warranty of 3 month. Being lucky in this case means that you have to run to Apple several times and leave your MacBook there for a couple of days until you might get finally a board that seriously works. If the glitches reappear when you are out of the repair warranty you will be ****** up.

     

    What’s the real problem behind the glitches?

    I tried to find out what the real problem is (of course I cannot assure this for each and every case): The GPU or the logicboard are not defective, it is just the solder connections between the GPU and the board that get tiny cracks/fissures over the time (with changing temperatures).

     

    But why is it possible that these connections crack? I am not a real technician, but I am interested in this stuff and I spoke to people who know a bit more about that, so my theory: It’s not the first time that a computer manufacturer builds solder connections between modules on a mainboard. But what changed within the last years: Apple (and others) have been criticized for the environmental impact of their products and the production process, the public had a look at that and new laws appeared, so the manufacturers started to bring the life cycle impact into focus. Now it looks like the “environmental impact” is improved. (in Apple’s case they made a nice presentation you can find here http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/environment/)

    Now MacBooks comply with standards and do not contain certain “dangerous and toxic” substances.

     

    Now, for example, they do not use lead anymore. (In the European Union it is officially forbidden for solder connections in electronic products since 2006. It is only allowed for connections that have to feature a strong durability, for example in certain medical products). The main objective of using lead for solder connections is to prohibit embrittlement and cracks in the connection. It is hardly possible to get the same quality without lead. Looks like the problem here.

     

    I am very interested in (environmental) sustainability. But regarding the consequences and the way defective boards are “repaired” by being replaced I would see this approach as counterproductive.

     

    What alternative repair options exist?

    The official way is replacing the mainboard. With the big disadvantage that it’s expensive and the much bigger disadvantage that there always is a risk that you will get a board that is also affected and the glitches reappear again after the warranty on the repair (see above) – and the disadvantage that it produces waste by changing parts that are not defective.

     

    There is a better way:

     

    I do not talk about crazy methods like how to “cook logicboards” – however they are no witchcraft: It might “refresh” the solder connections and might help for a while, maybe for a long time, but it’s never sure if and how long it helps. And seriously: It takes you hours to demount the whole machine if you are not familiar with that.

     

    I looked for something professional and found a few small companies on the Internet offering such repairs, but I was afraid sending my machine to someone I do not know. Fortunately I finally found one not far from where I live, in Wuppertal (Germany), called MJ Computer. I visited Markus who runs the company specialised on things like that, doing a lot of notebook repairs like that and work for Hifi companies like Onkyo. He told me that he had this case already a few times and explained me exactly what he is going to do to get it repaired:

     

    • removal of the GPU from the logic board
    • removal of the old solder connections from GPU and logic board
    • cleaning of all parts
    • assembling of new thermal paste (in the right amount, originally there is too much used from Apple’s assemblers)
    • assembling of new solder connections (containing lead)
    • assembling of the GPU
    • cleaning of the mainboard and the cooling parts
    • stress tests

     

    The result: I got back a working machine with 6 month warranty on the work. The hardware is still the same, old board, old GPU. The connections are now soldered with lead, because it’s recommended for a higher durability and to eliminate the risk of embrittlement – so I pleased him to do so.

     

    I paid 100 Euro for the repair and I have got a much better feeling than with a replacement board after having learned all that about the origin of the failure and after having read your stories.

     

    That’s what I can recommend: Search for companies like MJ Computer Wuppertal, write Markus an e-mail, make a repair order and you will get back a working machine. His website is in German only, but under “Impressum” you find a phone no., mail and postal address. I have been there and it’s a very trustworthy company.

     

    I hope that I can help you with that, I was extremely frustrated and I am very glad now that my problem is finally solved. I would appreciate to here from you if you can share my experience.

     

    Cheers.

  • by saramwrap,

    saramwrap saramwrap Oct 9, 2013 7:23 PM in response to hnrk
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 9, 2013 7:23 PM in response to hnrk

    I'm glad that you've finally found something that's gotten your MacBook Pro working!  It can be difficult to find a trustworthy third party repair service to do this sort of work, and perhaps this will help some folks in Europe. 

     

    I'm very interested in seeing if reballing the GPU helps long-term - I have some concerns that the GPU itself could have some issues, either inherently or as a result of use.  If the GPU has a physical problem, reballing wouldn't fix it.  Apple's replacement program for the 2011 iMacs says that their GPUs may "fail," which seems to suggest that there's a problem with those chips and not just their solder.  (Or maybe I'm reading too much into the wording.)

     

    I'll close with the same cautions I give every time that we're talking about third-party repairs - I'd never tell someone not to try these things, but rather to be informed and weigh the pros and cons before they do them.  Once you've reballed the chip, there's no turning back.  This will certainly void any warranty your laptop may be under, and could prevent you from getting future repairs from Apple if you need them.  Apple has denied service to owners of computers that have obviously been repaired by non-authorized facilities, or charged them a much higher repair fee (e.g. the flat-rate depot repair cost on a unit they see has been tampered with can be $1200 or more, instead of $310). 

     

    But we can't wait forever for a replacement program that may never materialize, so please keep us informed about how this repair holds up for you.  It could be a lifesaver for others. 

  • by hnrk,

    hnrk hnrk Oct 10, 2013 1:37 PM in response to saramwrap
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 10, 2013 1:37 PM in response to saramwrap

    saramwrap, thanks for the advice, I added that in other forums too. I did not know that Apple behaves different when a third party repair has been tried before. Unfortunately the flat repair does not exist in Germany, here it's more than the double price...

     

    Anyway, I keep you informed if I should get any problems.

  • by Karl Ihrig,

    Karl Ihrig Karl Ihrig Oct 10, 2013 2:37 PM in response to saramwrap
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 10, 2013 2:37 PM in response to saramwrap

    In Mexico, the Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) offered me reballing for $250, and board replacement for $1,200 USD.  If I wasn't able to get flat rate depot repair in the USA, I would have gotten reballing through the Apple Authorized Service Provider, which they said would be warranteed for 90 days, but might stop working after 3 months.  (They obviously wanted to sell me a replacement board for $1,200.)


    It is great hnrk is giving us new information.  Thanks!  Reballing working says something about the cause.

    A professional reballing seems like it may be the best option outside the USA where board replacement is more costly.  Getting reballing through the AASP should not disqualify from Apple flat rate repair later, but flat rate repair seems unavailable outside the USA.

    Congratulations to hnrk for pursuing happiness and getting it! 

  • by Tycho Vhargon,

    Tycho Vhargon Tycho Vhargon Oct 10, 2013 8:21 PM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Oct 10, 2013 8:21 PM in response to Rensoom

    Same thing that's been happening to everyone happened to me about a month ago. Ended up just buying a new MacBook Pro with Retina Display, but I still didn't want to just have a broken computer sitting around.

     

    Went to Harbor Freight Tools and picked up a $25 heat gun (there's cheaper models, but without temperature control) got some $15 thermal compound and a $6 bottle of acetone (to clean the old thermal compound) and reflowed the GPU, mostly following this guide: http://makestuffdostuff.blogspot.com/2011/01/reflowing-gpu-on-macbook-pro.html.


    Put it all back together, and it works! Saved myself an expensive repair and hopefully the new thermal compound will prevent it from happening again.

     

    If anyone wants to try this and needs any help (or you just want me to do it), let me know.

  • by drdooher,

    drdooher drdooher Oct 13, 2013 11:36 AM in response to hnrk
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 13, 2013 11:36 AM in response to hnrk

    After some serious thought, I came to the same conclusion.  I believe it's the solder. The new lead solder has a higher reflow temperature, and is cracking under cyclic high temp thermal stress. This is why "baking" boards can provide temporary release. When you bake the board, it causes the solder to remelt at the points of thermal cracking. But because it doesn't flow well, it's temporary, and stress lines are still there. I believe apple is taking in old boards and baking them. They are aware of the problem, and the baking can get them past the 90 day warranty period. The only real solution is to send your Mac or board to a real repair group who will pull off the old radon chip, replace it with a cooler running one, and use high quality solder. You're wasting your money going to apple. They know they are ripping you off, and they don't care.

     

    Bottom line. Do it yourself with a heat gun ( but you'll still have the chip issue) or have a professional do it.  Not apple. I had a name but its on my old (temporarily dead) computer. When I have a free half day ill fix it, but its hard to do with young ones...

  • by Supop B.,

    Supop B. Supop B. Oct 16, 2013 12:19 PM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 16, 2013 12:19 PM in response to Rensoom

    I'm from Thailand and my computer(Macbook pro early 2011 2.0Ghz) also had this problem around 3 months ago.

    at first it start with a line on the screen

    ฤฆฏ.jpg

     

    and has a blue screen with a vertical line in a week later.

    IMG_1242ฆฆ.jpg

    and cannot boot up the OS anymore(after apple logo apear on the screen it's only a white plain screen and stop)

     

    I sent an email and I recieved a call from apple Singapore in the next day .(there are no apple office in Thailand)

    They just try to help me investigate about the problem and try to insist that it's might be a different problem with people around here. They started with asking me to booting up safemode and booting up with OSX cds and then a hardware testing process(the result is no problem found). After that they celled me and ask me wether I upgraded my macbook pro or not and I told them I did replace a Ram so thet want me to replace an apple Ram and check the computer but It's not work. The staff from apple authorize service provider assume that the problem should be logic board and to replace it cost around 300us$. Today a staff from apple singapore have just called me and told me that there is not enough report from users and do not have a recall or free repairing program yet so I have to pay 300$ if I want to fix my computer.

     

    I decided not to repair it because I'm not sure how long that new logic board can be use and to buy a new computer is might be a better choice for me(also has deteriorate battery and DVD drive problem).

     

    I'm a product designer student and I have many friend who use macbook pro early 2011 and already broken within two and a half years.

    One of my friend who studying landscape design in different University told me that he has 9 freinds who use macbook pro early 2011 and now 6 of 9 is broken but they all decided to sell their computer as a part.

     

    I don't think this problem is normal for HI-End computer and I'm very angry about wasting my money to buy this computer.

     

    Bad Apple.

     

    <Email Edited By Host>

  • by solidrocketbooster,

    solidrocketbooster solidrocketbooster Oct 15, 2013 12:52 AM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 15, 2013 12:52 AM in response to Rensoom
  • by Wojzo,

    Wojzo Wojzo Oct 21, 2013 2:07 PM in response to solidrocketbooster
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2013 2:07 PM in response to solidrocketbooster

    solidrocketbooster wrote:

     

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/10/14/apples-2011-macbook-pro-lineup-sufferi ng-from-sporadic-gpu-failures

     

    Great to see it appearing.

     

    <Edited By Host>

  • by Ptike,

    Ptike Ptike Oct 15, 2013 12:21 PM in response to Wojzo
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 15, 2013 12:21 PM in response to Wojzo

    Great to have some media attention and also good to hear that some solutions actually work. (Hnrk post).

     

    I hope Apple will start a recall program and actually fix the solder connections between gpu and motherboard instead of replacing the logic board with the same kind of logic boards.

    I understand that they would not start a recall program as long as they haven't found a solution that really fixes the problem. But now there are clear indications for the cause of the problem and how to solve it..

     

  • by milocanovich,

    milocanovich milocanovich Oct 15, 2013 12:25 PM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 15, 2013 12:25 PM in response to Rensoom

    Also Macbook Pro 15 inch, early 2011 (AMD Radeon HD 6490M)

     

    A couple of weeks ago, the screen on my Macbook went grey and since then I was never able to start the laptop again.

    I went to an Apple official repair shop (I'm in Argentina) and they told me that the motherboard needed to be changed, but the replacement parts aren’t arriving due to local importation problems. I ended up going to another technician who was able to “revive” it, but there is no guarantee that I won’t have this issue again. Apparently there seems to be a general problem with the video board from this series of laptops.

    For now I can use the laptop but when it switches to the AMD video board, it overheats and I have to speed up the fan manually.

     

    I have an old "iMac line screen", I hope Apple give me a prompt solution.

  • by elagarrigue,

    elagarrigue elagarrigue Oct 16, 2013 8:58 AM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 16, 2013 8:58 AM in response to Rensoom

    The same, Macbook Pro (Pro ... really ?) 15 inch, early 2011 (AMD Radeon HD 6490M).

    Freezes as soon as the AMD video is used.

    :-(((

  • by Gorlian,

    Gorlian Gorlian Oct 16, 2013 9:59 AM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 16, 2013 9:59 AM in response to Rensoom

    Same happened to me. I'm so sad because my warranty finished in september. I'm really dissappointed, where's the "Think different" philosophy?

  • by Rimshots,

    Rimshots Rimshots Oct 16, 2013 2:22 PM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 16, 2013 2:22 PM in response to Rensoom

    Same what happen to my 2yrs old MBP 2011 model A1826 15" 2.2 corei7 with AMD Radeon HD 6750m GPU 1GB of DDR5.. really disapointed for this investment, i was expecting that Apple product will commit to what i invested. i suffer from Freezing all the time, and lead to damage and now unable to boot, with horizontal stripes in restart, and hang to a grey display. safe mode is turning into blue vertical lines.

    Apple should recall all units with thesame GPU's.

     

    Same as they did with Nvidia 2010, they recall all units.

     

    Hey APPLE!  as you will know many Guys here are suffering from your product, and investing for this product is not a joke!

    Appreciated your kind concern...

  • by Dirk van den Berg,

    Dirk van den Berg Dirk van den Berg Oct 16, 2013 2:51 PM in response to Rensoom
    Level 1 (63 points)
    Oct 16, 2013 2:51 PM in response to Rensoom

    Update on my situation: my MacBook Pro 17-inch, late 2011, had all the problems everybody else is describing in this thread. And now they seem to be resolved. This is how:

     

    I was desparate because when the machine basically became useless while working in Saudi Arabia and on the clock with a project, since there is no Apple Support in the country. Luckily, in nearby Bahrain there is, and teh good people at iMachines Manama have taken it in for repair. First, they put in a first new logic board, but the problems came back within less than 24 hours. Then, they put in another one. This time, I insisted that I could not afford to loose any more time, and money - and because I brought them the MacBook Pro literally on the last day of Apple's warranty for the machine. So they kept it under observation for 4 days. And ran all possible analyses. Bottom line: the 16GB of RAM I had installed on the machine had created the problem. Now, I am back with 8GB of RAM with only one DIMM socket occupied.

    Yes, to be honest Apple officially does not support 16GB of RAM, and yes, the 8GB DIMM really is faulty. Anyways, for the last 8 days I had no problems whatsoever.

    I have another 80 days of warranty for that repair, so there is virtually no risk I am stuck with this problem and a huge sum to pay for repair. But it seems to me that this time, the "culprit" is not Apple. Will update you in about 80 days or so. In the meantime I recommend that you check your RAM, if you upgraded your machine and if this upgrade is officially supported or not. Cheers!

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