Q: 4.3 Flicker Problem

tgibbs wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:

AppDad wrote:

Chenks wrote:
or you use the appletv the way it was sold to you originally, using an HDMI cable with no third party convertors.

Okay, so what am I doing wrong? I am using an HDMI cable and am getting the flickering.

Message was edited by: AppDad

I am guessing here, but I bet your TV is not full HD. Maybe 720p? or even 1080i?
That seems to be the issue. They are only supporting 1080p now via HDMI to HDMI. Essentially. ( I could be wrong. )

Apple TV's native output is 720p. Apple does not officially support HDMI to DVI adapters at all for AppleTV2, although some people have been able to get it to work with some adapters.

Even more reason this "update" shouldn't have disabled the unit. If we go with that thought it almost seems as if the update was engineered to cause this to happen... That is a really sad thought.

Chenks wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:
I hate to say this, but I have handled Legal issues here in the states for major companies and this sort of issue has always been corrected. You can't have a product work (luck or not), and change it once it is out of warranty effectively disabling it. It is a form of bait and switch. Granted it was unintentional, I hope, but legally in at least 3 states, there is an obligation on the part of the manufacturer to at least undo what they did to disable to product.

and what about the other 47 states ?
i would suggest that it you attempted to take it to court you would lose.

also the product isn't disabled, connect it to a TV using HDMI and you'll find it works.

Actually it would only take one state to find guilt and set a precedence. There are consumer protection laws against this sort of 'mistake'. (giving apple credit here that this was an oversight)
I have seen people win over far less.
I personally vote with my dollar, I just won't buy apple products should they choose not to correct this. I love their products, but when they choose to take a hard stance on this type of issue it is poor support.

Message was edited by: BradGarbus

tgibbs wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:

AppDad wrote:

Chenks wrote:
or you use the appletv the way it was sold to you originally, using an HDMI cable with no third party convertors.

Okay, so what am I doing wrong? I am using an HDMI cable and am getting the flickering.

Message was edited by: AppDad

I am guessing here, but I bet your TV is not full HD. Maybe 720p? or even 1080i?
That seems to be the issue. They are only supporting 1080p now via HDMI to HDMI. Essentially. ( I could be wrong. )

Apple TV's native output is 720p. Apple does not officially support HDMI to DVI adapters at all for AppleTV2, although some people have been able to get it to work with some adapters.

HDMI to DVI is a red herring regarding this issue. Setups that match spec are having problem.

drsnacks wrote:

tgibbs wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:

AppDad wrote:

Chenks wrote:
or you use the appletv the way it was sold to you originally, using an HDMI cable with no third party convertors.

Okay, so what am I doing wrong? I am using an HDMI cable and am getting the flickering.

Message was edited by: AppDad

I am guessing here, but I bet your TV is not full HD. Maybe 720p? or even 1080i?
That seems to be the issue. They are only supporting 1080p now via HDMI to HDMI. Essentially. ( I could be wrong. )

Apple TV's native output is 720p. Apple does not officially support HDMI to DVI adapters at all for AppleTV2, although some people have been able to get it to work with some adapters.

HDMI to DVI is a red herring regarding this issue. Setups that match spec are having problem.

Very good point. Perhaps when they correct those issues it will fix the others. I will give them a few days to at least announce they are working on a solution before I pitch a complete fit... lol

BradGarbus wrote:
I will give them a few days to at least announce they are working on a solution before I pitch a complete fit... lol

they won't announce anything.
the only announcement you'll get (via third parties) is that a new update is available.

Chenks wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:
I hate to say this, but I have handled Legal issues here in the states for major companies and this sort of issue has always been corrected. You can't have a product work (luck or not), and change it once it is out of warranty effectively disabling it. It is a form of bait and switch. Granted it was unintentional, I hope, but legally in at least 3 states, there is an obligation on the part of the manufacturer to at least undo what they did to disable to product.

and what about the other 47 states ?
i would suggest that it you attempted to take it to court you would lose.

also the product isn't disabled, connect it to a TV using HDMI and you'll find it works.

I shouldn't have to. It worked fine for a year on my current TV before the update was installed, rendering it disabled. Here in the US, that is not permissible under many state's consumer protection laws...

BradGarbus wrote:
I will give them a few days to at least announce they are working on a solution before I pitch a complete fit... lol

Have a beer and chill out instead

Look at Japan today - there are more important things to get worked up about in the grand scheme of things - as annoying as I know this is for you, sometimes other events put our concerns into perspective.

AC

BradGarbus wrote:
I shouldn't have to. It worked fine for a year on my current TV before the update was installed, rendering it disabled. Here in the US, that is not permissible.

time to move on. constantly repeating the same thing is not productive.
you have the facts and the current state of play. there is no point continuing this line of discussion.

i need to go out now and put diesel in my petrol car - after all there is nothing on the car to say that i shouldn't do that. if it doesn't work i'll be taking my complaint to the highest court in the land !

Alley_Cat wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:
I will give them a few days to at least announce they are working on a solution before I pitch a complete fit... lol

Have a beer and chill out instead

Look at Japan today - there are more important things to get worked up about in the grand scheme of things - as annoying as I know this is for you, sometimes other events put our concerns into perspective.

AC
Alley_Cat wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:
I will give them a few days to at least announce they are working on a solution before I pitch a complete fit... lol

Have a beer and chill out instead

Look at Japan today - there are more important things to get worked up about in the grand scheme of things - as annoying as I know this is for you, sometimes other events put our concerns into perspective.

AC

AMEN AC. AMEN! (I still want to fuss at Apple... lol)

Chenks wrote:

BradGarbus wrote:
I shouldn't have to. It worked fine for a year on my current TV before the update was installed, rendering it disabled. Here in the US, that is not permissible.

time to move on. constantly repeating the same thing is not productive.
you have the facts and the current state of play. there is no point continuing this line of discussion.

i need to go out now and put diesel in my petrol car - after all there is nothing on the car to say that i shouldn't do that. if it doesn't work i'll be taking my complaint to the highest court in the land !

And in the United States you would win the case EXCEPT it is plastered all over the car and manual what the proper fuel is to use.
But if you used diesel in your car when you first purchased it and it worked fine, and you took it into the dealer for work, they changed something that would damage the engine if you continued to use diesel without informing you, then here in the states the manufacturer would be required to return the engine to its original state so it would continue to work as it did before they changed it.
Now, if you signed something saying you knew what the change would cause, that would be a different situation altogether. In this case Apple did not, there for they are liable to at least restore the product to its previous state.

BradGarbus wrote:
And in the United States you would win the case EXCEPT it is plastered all over the car and manual what the proper fuel is to use.
But if you used diesel in your car when you first purchased it and it worked fine, and you took it into the dealer for work, they changed something that would damage the engine if you continued to use diesel without informing you, then here in the states the manufacturer would be required to return the engine to its original state so it would continue to work as it did before they changed it.
Now, if you signed something saying you knew what the change would cause, that would be a different situation altogether. In this case Apple did not, there for they are liable to at least restore the product to its previous state.

yawn. this US law that you mention only goes to prove what i always thought of americans!

You might want to see if drsnacks tip helps:

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=13197706#13197706

{quote:title=stephgo wrote:}Honestly, I don't think apple will be too keen on fixing this one. All the problems are due to older televisions and non-HDCP compliant hdmi and/or dvi inputs. I checked my Sony tv manual... It doesn't say it's hcdp compliant. I did buy it 5 years ago and technology has changed.{quote}

So basically apple is telling those of us that have the new ATV2 to go buy new TV's. I think not, rather return my ATV2 for $99.00 and build my own Media server I get most everything I need through my Sony Blu-Ray Player (Hlu Plus, Netflix, 6 other movie rental and TV show areaas as well as pandora and i can store all my own movies on an external drive. I have supported Apple for over 20+ years and to be tossed aside for having a 6year old LCD TV. Whats next, Apple selling me a TV, and only that TV will work with the ATV when they upgrade it again.

They will fix this, I am sure of that, however, I would have expected a solution already with the mass appeal of ATV2 over the original ATV1; which I had and never ever had an issue with it.

Peace all.

Figured I should lend my two cents: I installed the update tonight and got the flicker. I'm HDMI to DVI on a 42" Sony KF-42WE620, 1080i, LCD Projection. The HDMI output menu option doesn't work. Click it and after a few flickers, it returns to the Audio and Video menu. I pulled and reinserted the HDMI/DVI cable from the ATV and the TV, but nothing changed. I reset the system. No change. I restored the system. Nada. Apple, please...

I had all kinds of problems with Apple TV2 from the beginning going thru a receiver,
I would either get a pink color based picture with sound or a perfect picture with no sound. Ended up adding a digital audio cable and that seemed to fix the problem.
I do get it sometimes but a reboot of the apple tv fixes it were before it was solid.
Have to wonder why there is a digital audio port on the Apple tv since HDMI is suppose to handle both.