Exporting a video from Apple Prores 4444 footage

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Exporting a video from Apple Prores 4444 footage

Hi everyone.
First of all I'd like to clarify that I've searched everywhere in this forum and although there are a lot of questions similar to mine, I still haven't found a solution to my problem.

Here are the facts:

My Equipment: iMac. Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Video editing software: FCP
Original video recorded with a Canon 500D.
Original video format and codec: MOV H.264 (Full HD 1920 x 1080) > converted to Apple ProRes 4444 to preserve high quality and be able to work on FCP.

I also have to clarify that I'm a newby when it comes to working with ProRes 4444.
The editing on FCP went smoothly...the problem came when exporting the project.
I have tried exporting to all types of formats and codecs and I always lose a lot of quality (which is very frustrating since the original video has excellent HD quality). I don't expect to improve quality when exporting, I just don't want the video to lose that much quality.

The last thing I tried: checked all settings, and today I realized my sequence settings where set to DV/DVCPRO - NTSC. I copied everything to a new sequence prepped for Apple ProRes 4444 (since you can't change the Sequence settings once there's a clip on the timeline). After doing this, the video on the canvas shrunk. Nevertheless, I exported to Quick Time Movie with current settings to see what happened: I obtained a video with frame size 1920 x 1080 (the size I want), BUT the actual video, which appeared to be of good quality, shrunk to half of its original size and was surrounded by a hugely thick black frame -thicker than a letterbox (like in the canvas).

Could anybody please advise me on how to export my video under this circumstances? and/or point out something I might be missing?

I've also searched for a guide on how to set FCP before starting to work with Prores 4444 footage and haven't found one. If anybody knows about one, or can share the steps with me, I'd be VERY thankful.

Thanks for reading and for your help!

Rossina

iMac, Mac OS X (10.6), Apple ProRes 4444

Posted on Mar 15, 2011 2:34 PM

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Answer 1

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Mar 15, 2011 4:29 PM in response to RBB_RBB

Welcome to the forum.

ProRes4444 is a total and complete waste of your hard drive space and bandwidth. It gains you zero and costs you a great deal.

ProRes LT is an appropriate codec for material recorded with that camera.

Since you've never said what the display venue/device will be, it is impossible to suggest how to process things further.

x

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Answer 2

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Mar 15, 2011 4:37 PM in response to RBB_RBB

Original video format and codec: MOV H.264 (Full HD 1920 x 1080) > converted to Apple ProRes 4444 to preserve high quality and be able to work on FCP.

Worse possible choice. Just because it has the highest data rate, and has a bigger and more impressive sounding name, doesn't mean it is better. It isn't...it is worse than the other options, by a lot. ProRes 4444 is meant to be used with graphics to preserve alpha channels, and to be used with formats that are 4444 to begin with. H.264 from a DSLR isn't...it is 8-bit, 4:2:0. What happens when you convert that to ProRes 4444 is the white get crushed and capped at 98IRE (100IRE is broadcast legal, but you can go over for other mediums), and blacks stop firm at 0 IRE (Again, those limits don't exist for things not destined for TV). This severly hampers color correction.

ProRes 422...the plain vanilla ProRes...is what you should choose...when doing broadcast work. DVD? BluRay? Web? Then use ProRes LT. 4444 is overkill, and wrong wrong wrong for this footage.

today I realized my sequence settings where set to DV/DVCPRO - NTSC. I copied everything to a new sequence prepped for Apple ProRes 4444 (since you can't change the Sequence settings once there's a clip on the timeline). After doing this, the video on the canvas shrunk.

Correct. Because the clips were all edited in that small HORRID DV codec. YOu need to highlight all your footage, and choose MODIFY>REMOVE ATTRIBUTES...and check off BASIC MOTION and DISTORT.

I've also searched for a guide on how to set FCP before starting to work with Prores 4444 footage and haven't found one. If anybody knows about one, or can share the steps with me, I'd be VERY thankful.

Simple...don't. Unless you are a high end graphics artist (motion graphics), or dealing with high end 4:4:4 footage...there is no reason you should even be considering this format. ProRes 422...not even HQ...is as high as you should go.

Shane

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Answer 3

RBB_RBB Author

Level 1

0 points

Mar 16, 2011 2:04 AM in response to Shane Ross

Thanks a lot for replying!

I'm working on an arts video with lots of light-dark contrast...I ended up converting to ProRes 4444 after trying converting to several codecs, including ProRes 422 and 422 HQ, with different video converters (Aunsoft and MPG Streamclip). At the end, the PR 4444 videos I obtained converting with MPG Streamclip were the ones that looked the best. Unfortunately I didn't -and still don't- understand much about the pros and cons of each one of these codecs...and I've come very far in the editing process, I really can't just start over (for the 3rd time).

Is PR 4444 really that bad? This is the first time I read such bad reviews! The information about these codecs supplied by Apple: is it pure BS? If I've been doing ok during the editing process and I'm satisfied with how it looks, can I just continue to work with what i have or am I really damaging my arts project working with ProRes 4444?

Shane, removing the attributes of my footage really worked

I then exported to QTM with current settings and for the 1st I obtained fairly good quality video!! THANKS A LOT! I have a last question though: after removing attributes and before exporting the video, I changed the settings of my sequence to ProRes 4444 and the following warning appeared: "The editing Timebase cannot be changed after the sequence is created; all other values have been replaced". Do you know what this means? Should I worry about it?

Thanks again for your help!!

R

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Answer 4

Mar 16, 2011 6:18 AM in response to RBB_RBB

ProRes 4444 is not "bad", it's just the wrong tool for your project. You don't put a $25K diamond-studded gold-plated case on a Motorola Star Tac. Well, you shouldn't put that case on anything, but I digress.

Not only is it overkill for the footage you're working with, it's not designed to work with your footage, it's designed to work for a different type of material.

Get rid of Aunsoft. Don't bother with MPEG Streamclip. You have Compressor, use it. There is a preset for Apple ProRes based on the frame size and frame rate of the original clip. Make sure the audio is set to convert to 48khz and use that.

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Answer 5

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Mar 16, 2011 7:11 AM in response to thrillcat editorial

Well, in this case, it IS bad. ProRes 4444 does not treat Canon DSLR footage well. It crushes everything. It is damaging...where ProRes 422 or LT does not. ProRes 4444 is meant for OTHER purposes...and it works for those. It is wrong here.

Shane

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Answer 6

Mar 16, 2011 7:14 AM in response to Shane Ross

Right. IN THIS CASE. What I'm trying to get across is it's not a BAD format, it's just the WRONG tool for this job. It's not a BAD format like VHS, or HDV, it's just the wrong format for this project.

A pile driver isn't bad, but you wouldn't use one to drive nails into a dollhouse.

Message was edited by: thrillcat editorial

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Answer 7

RBB_RBB Author

Level 1

0 points

Mar 16, 2011 7:52 AM in response to thrillcat editorial

Ok...I understand what you mean and I appreciate your help. However it just kills me to start over all the work...it's too much work and I've had too many problems trying to edit this **** video. ...Maybe tomorrow I'll get over it.

Btw, I don't have Compressor...

Does anyone have any advice regarding the timeline issue I mentioned on my previous post? I quote:

After removing attributes from footage and before exporting the video, I changed the settings of my sequence to ProRes 4444 and the following warning appeared: "The editing Timebase cannot be changed after the sequence is created; all other values have been replaced". Should I worry about the difference in editing Timebase?

Huge thanks!

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Answer 8

Mar 16, 2011 8:15 AM in response to RBB_RBB

If you have FCP you have Compressor. If it's not installed, go back to your installation discs and install it.

Editing timebase is your framerate, yes, you should worry about it.

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Answer 9

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Mar 16, 2011 9:15 AM in response to RBB_RBB

Time base means FRAME RATE...so don't change that.

Shane

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Answer 10

RBB_RBB Author

Level 1

0 points

Mar 16, 2011 1:33 PM in response to Shane Ross

Thanks everyone. I'm -reluctantly- starting again from zero. Converted all footage to ProRes 422 HQ and I'm starting off with correct sequence settings and editing timebase on FCP. Couldn't use Compressor because the submit button is grayed out and I haven't been able to solve that issue. MPG Streamclip did the work just fine.

Thanks again for your great help.

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Answer 11

Mar 16, 2011 4:44 PM in response to RBB_RBB

Just so we can make sure you're on the right track, what are your Sequence Settings?
Does your Editing Base match the Vid Rate for all of the clips in your bin?

p.s. ProRes422 HQ is still overkill for your HDSLR footage. ProRes422 can accept ALL of the data from your camera, and LT will get a vast majority of it. 422HQ is a step in the right direction from 4444 - but it's still more than you need. 422HQ is a 10 bit codec, where as 422 and 422LT are 8 bit - which matches what your camera shoots. It won't cause you major grief, but in the future you're wasting space on your hard drive.

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Answer 12

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Mar 16, 2011 4:50 PM in response to soundman1024

422HQ is a 10 bit codec, where as 422 and 422LT are 8 bit

Not quite true. All the ProRes422 (HQ, std, LT) are 10 bit.

Your point is still valid. For material recorded with AVCHD cams, there is no real difference between LT, std and HQ

A simple test employing the "difference matte" comparing material transcoded to all three codecs will reveal no difference.

On the other hand, I think I'm going to buy stock in hard drive companies and encourage people to think HQ is "better".

x

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Answer 13

RBB_RBB Author

Level 1

0 points

Mar 17, 2011 1:08 AM in response to soundman1024

For my sequence settings I loaded the preset Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1920 x 1080 25 p 48 kHz. The editing time base does match the Vid rate. Hope I'm on the right track!

I'll keep in mind what you say about ProRes 422 and LT vs. 422HQ for future projects. In the mean time, fortunately I'm only working on this project that is not huge...so for now I have more than enough hard drive space.

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Answer 14

Mar 17, 2011 6:24 PM in response to Studio X

Thanks for correcting me! I'll file that away and do some more research on the topic.

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Answer 15

RBB_RBB Author

Level 1

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Mar 23, 2011 2:36 PM in response to soundman1024

Hi again everyone! I finished editing my video and it went pretty well. The information you gave me was really helpful (thanks again). Which is why I'm coming back to ask you one last question -I want to make sure I make the right decision in the final stage of the video editing process.
After editing everything in FCP using Apple ProRes 422 HQ, which do you think is the best format/codec to export to, if I want to:
a) Do some further editing on another software, like Adobe After Effects.
b) Burn a DVD
c) Share on the Internet

Exporting back to MOV H.264 seems to make the video loose a bit of quality...is there a better choice?

Thanks in advance.

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