MacBook Pro 2011 Battery Re-Charging Issue

http://appleguru.org/blog/2011/04/12/2011-macbook-pro-battery-not-charging-under -gpu-load/

TheRosta wrote:

Thanks for the explanation,

So basically I have all of this power, and if I utilize all that power for extended periods of time, the computer will eventually shut down even though it's plugged in, by design, because it has to use the battery to augment its power needs.

That's wrong, the computer will not shut down while it is powered from the ac adaptor.

Csound1 wrote:

TheRosta wrote:

Thanks for the explanation,

So basically I have all of this power, and if I utilize all that power for extended periods of time, the computer will eventually shut down even though it's plugged in, by design, because it has to use the battery to augment its power needs.

That's wrong, the computer will not shut down while it is powered from the ac adaptor.

When all the components pull more power than the ac adapter can provide - you'll have system stability issues. The battery will boost the available power for a period of time - but once the battery is exhausted... then what?

As a parent of three kids and a busy life - I don't get to play games long enough to drain the battery down to 0%, but when I do get a chance to play a game - occasionally when I exit the game, the battery is considerably lower than when I started - even though I was connected to AC the entire time.

I can't consistently reproduce it though which leads me to believe it's a software or firmware glitch in the charging system.

I've been scouring the net looking for power consumption data on the radeon 8750m and found squat. I've been logging power consumption of my i7 using Intel's Power Gadget. I'm able max out at 28W when the processor is at 2.9 GHz. This obviously doesn't account for the hard drive, backlights, GPU, or the two cooling fans... so at least I know one part of the equation.

I have a handful of Kill-a-watts at work and will be testing this MBP tomorrow. Hopefully I'll see something more interesting. All I know is that the power adapter gets **** hot when I'm flexing the MBP's muscles... almost too hot to touch.

That's not true. If the power consumption is greater than the power supply output when plugged in, the battery stops charging and all power diverts to supporting the load. If the load is sufficient, then the battery is used to supplement. In this state, the MacBook will only stay on until the battery is depleted at which point the laptop shuts itself off to protect the machine. I have experienced it; it will shut down.

ShawnLive wrote:

That's not true. If the power consumption is greater than the power supply output when plugged in, the battery stops charging and all power diverts to supporting the load. If the load is sufficient, then the battery is used to supplement. In this state, the MacBook will only stay on until the battery is depleted at which point the laptop shuts itself off to protect the machine. I have experienced it; it will shut down.

I have an appointment with the genius bar on Monday to discuss this. It could explain why Apple doesn't make these batteries replaceable without opening up the case... this may be by design. Oh please let this not be true - I'm already past my 14 day return.

I've had more forthright answers from the folks at the genius bar than calling Apple support... even if they didn't have a fix.

ShawnLive wrote:

That's not true. If the power consumption is greater than the power supply output when plugged in, the battery stops charging and all power diverts to supporting the load. If the load is sufficient, then the battery is used to supplement. In this state, the MacBook will only stay on until the battery is depleted at which point the laptop shuts itself off to protect the machine. I have experienced it; it will shut down.

Incorrect, the load (computer) will only run at the level supported by the power available, ie. whatever the combined output of psu and battery happens to be, once the battery is exhausted the power available will drop, and the performance of the load will drop by a proportionate amount. It may go slower but it won't stop.

Csound1 wrote:

ShawnLive wrote:

That's not true. If the power consumption is greater than the power supply output when plugged in, the battery stops charging and all power diverts to supporting the load. If the load is sufficient, then the battery is used to supplement. In this state, the MacBook will only stay on until the battery is depleted at which point the laptop shuts itself off to protect the machine. I have experienced it; it will shut down.

Incorrect, the load (computer) will only run at the level supported by the power available, ie. whatever the combined output of psu and battery happens to be, once the battery is exhausted the power available will drop, and the performance of the load will drop by a proportionate amount. It may go slower but it won't stop.

Can you answer these questions for me, Csound:

1. Do you have a 15" or 17" MBP 2011 model with an i7 and Radeon video card?

2. Have you been able to reproduce the issue this thread is dedicated to?

No to the models, mainly use 2009 - 2011 13" (only the 09's have seperate graphics cards)

I have never seen any Mac portable shut down for lack of power when attached to a properly functioning supply, before the batteries became non removable I have used 15" MBP' with no battery at all, just psu power.

Csound1 wrote:

No to the models, mainly use 2009 - 2011 13" (only the 09's have seperate graphics cards)

I have never seen any Mac portable shut down for lack of power when attached to a properly functioning supply, before the batteries became non removable I have used 15" MBP' with no battery at all, just psu power.

I don't wish to be rude, but I find your argument baseless then. If you haven't been able to repeat it or experience these specific model laptop going into a lower power state after draining the battery - then you're just reciting unconfirmed theories from experience from previous models that do not fully incorporate the variables we're experiencing - specifically a laptop that will consume more power than is currently available from the ac adapter.

The failure that we're discussing is the fact that a fully stressed 15" MBP with an i7 and Radeon GPU can exceed 90W of power draw - as reported by other sources. When you have 85W maximum from the AC adapter - the laptop must be able to draw from battery. When this battery is drained - what happens? Most are saying their laptops act as if they were disconnected from a AC and the battery is draining - initiating a shutdown, not a lower power consumption state.

Apple has a few options in this case...

1. Software update that will initiate a "low water mark" when fully stressed that will change power consumption states when below a certain battery level.

2. Provide a larger AC adapter that can exceed the total power consumption of the laptop - and it would be nice to have extra juice to recharge the battery and fully power the MBP at the same time.

Message was edited by: bspiral - replace a word.

bspiral wrote:

Csound1 wrote:

No to the models, mainly use 2009 - 2011 13" (only the 09's have seperate graphics cards)

I have never seen any Mac portable shut down for lack of power when attached to a properly functioning supply, before the batteries became non removable I have used 15" MBP' with no battery at all, just psu power.

The failure that we're discussing is the fact that a fully stressed 15" MBP with an i7 and Radeon GPU can exceed 90W of power draw - as reported by other sources. When you have 85W maximum from the AC adapter - the laptop must be able to draw from battery. When this battery is drained - what happens? Most are saying their laptops act as if they were disconnected from a AC and the battery is draining - initiating a shutdown, not a lower power consumption state.

And that is something you have tested?, or merely extrapolated, from where exactly.

Buy yourself a Kill a Watt, take a measurement for less than $20.

Csound1 wrote:

bspiral wrote:

Csound1 wrote:

No to the models, mainly use 2009 - 2011 13" (only the 09's have seperate graphics cards)

I have never seen any Mac portable shut down for lack of power when attached to a properly functioning supply, before the batteries became non removable I have used 15" MBP' with no battery at all, just psu power.

The failure that we're discussing is the fact that a fully stressed 15" MBP with an i7 and Radeon GPU can exceed 90W of power draw - as reported by other sources. When you have 85W maximum from the AC adapter - the laptop must be able to draw from battery. When this battery is drained - what happens? Most are saying their laptops act as if they were disconnected from a AC and the battery is draining - initiating a shutdown, not a lower power consumption state.

And that is something you have tested?, or merely extrapolated, from where exactly.

Buy yourself a Kill a Watt, take a measurement for less than $20.

I have four at work - we use them to calculate power consumptions in computer labs, server racks, and network closets. It helps us plan for cooling needs, UPS runtimes, and power distribution. And it will be useless in this specific situation because the kill-a-watt will only show my AC draw, not my laptop's total power consumption. I suppose if I hit numbers close to 85W and the battery drains - it would signify that we're exceeding 85W, but in the end we're arguing how the laptop acts when under full load and the battery is fully drained.

I guess what I was getting at is - if you don't have one - how can you say someone's observations are wrong? Others in this very thread have stated their MBP's have shutdown while connected to AC adapters.

With percentages this low I suspect individual event defects rather than endemic issues, but I have a new 15" i7 at the office, I'll see if I can replicate the situation.

bspiral wrote:

Csound1 wrote:

bspiral wrote:

Csound1 wrote:

No to the models, mainly use 2009 - 2011 13" (only the 09's have seperate graphics cards)

I have never seen any Mac portable shut down for lack of power when attached to a properly functioning supply, before the batteries became non removable I have used 15" MBP' with no battery at all, just psu power.

The failure that we're discussing is the fact that a fully stressed 15" MBP with an i7 and Radeon GPU can exceed 90W of power draw - as reported by other sources. When you have 85W maximum from the AC adapter - the laptop must be able to draw from battery. When this battery is drained - what happens? Most are saying their laptops act as if they were disconnected from a AC and the battery is draining - initiating a shutdown, not a lower power consumption state.

And that is something you have tested?, or merely extrapolated, from where exactly.

Buy yourself a Kill a Watt, take a measurement for less than $20.

I have four at work - we use them to calculate power consumptions in computer labs, server racks, and network closets. It helps us plan for cooling needs, UPS runtimes, and power distribution. And it will be useless in this specific situation because the kill-a-watt will only show my AC draw, not my laptop's total power consumption. I suppose if I hit numbers close to 85W and the battery drains - it would signify that we're exceeding 85W, but in the end we're arguing how the laptop acts when under full load and the battery is fully drained.

I guess what I was getting at is - if you don't have one - how can you say someone's observations are wrong? Others in this very thread have stated their MBP's have shutdown while connected to AC adapters.

Use one of your Kill a Watts to obtain total power draw, multiply by 0.899 (115v) or 0.897 (240v) for laptop consumption.

attrib: http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/MacBookPro_15-inch_Product_Env ironmental_Report_Oct2011.pdf

Soo,

I had same problem with my Macbook Pro Late 2011, 15" 2.4ghz i7.. It's annoying when it happens. But what I did, was to set my lappys adapter in the master input in my power thingy.. I can run 8 instances of yes /dev/null without any problem, or rendering a movie. I'm not facing the problem anymore at least.. I even run with 2 harddrives within my macbook pro.

The energy report is spot on for idle states... my killawatt is reporting numbers +/- 0.1 of the watts listed in the report. Battery fully charged, screen on full, idling - 17.7watts total.

I stressed the MBP this morning in Windows 7 64bit with some CPU and GPU intensive tasks and could never exceed 58 watts total draw on the AC adapter. I've switched back to OS X and now going through the same battery of tests.

On the OS X side, I was able to exceed 78 watts... but never reach the maximum of 85 watts of the adapter and my battery remained fully charged.

I'll have a killawatt connected to both my AC adapters so when this happens again - I'll be able to see the power draw.