Q: Font problems after 10.6.7

Kurt Lang wrote:
1) Everything worked fine in 10.6.6. Whatever Apple changed in 10.6.7 caused the issue, so they should be the ones to fix it.

Another way to look at it might be that Apple's change exposed the issue.

2) The logistics are rather overwhelming. If you compare how many Macs are running 10.6.7 to the install base of Acrobat across Windows, OS X, Linux, etc., it's got to outnumber 10.6.7 by at least a factor of 10.

The logistics considerations are not just about the relative installed bases but also about the long term consequences of a "fix" that helps perpetuate poorly defined standards or disregarding already established & accepted ones. We have been down this road before & it leads to duels between proprietary standards, portability problems that take years to resolve, high prices, & captive markets.

Preview and other third party apps have no trouble viewing PDF files generated from 10.6.7. It seems to be only Acrobat that has trouble.

That is a vast oversimplification. The reports are all over the place regarding which apps have what problems with what fonts.

This is also causing havoc with PostScript RIPs and printers. That would involve updating hundreds, more likely thousands of printer drivers across multiple OS's. It's just too much compared to fixing OS X.

This assumes much that is as yet not well understood about the nature or cause(s) of the problem(s). For instance, there are conflicting reports about what fonts cause problems with PostScript RIP's.

Basically, all I'm saying is it is premature to speculate about the best fix or who should do it. The last thing we need is a string of hastily contrived quick fixes that solve some users problems while creating bigger problems for others.

So does anyone have any suggestions at this point? My experience mirrors what has been posted here,
but I'm still puzzled why things are different depending on what system you're using.

For example, I write a monthly HOA newsletter in Word using Arial for all text - except for "Trajan Pro"
for the title. Every issue for the past 2 years opens fine with Adobe Reader (9.x or 10.x) until the most
recent issue that I created after 10.6.7 - and it totally hangs Reader to the point where I have to
force-quit it. I post the .pdf's on the HOA web site, and can read every issue (including the most
recent) using Chrome or Safari without incident. (Firefox also seems to have a problem - it does
default to Adobe Reader to view, so that may not prove anything.)

However, if this same site is viewed on a PC (which previously had no problems reading the files),
the .pdf's now will not open at all - even old files which have not changed, and the new one. One PC
is using Win7 Pro with Reader 10.0.1, and I've also used VMware with Win7 and IE8 - both these
fail to read any previously-readable files. Older XP systems with IE also fail. These all worked just
fine a month ago. What changed on the PC side - Adobe Reader?

What course of action do I take? I really don't want to take the time to reinstall 10.6.0 and then
update to 10.6.6 - is this really the only option at this point?

Thanks for any pointers . . .

That is a vast oversimplification.

How so? The comment was specifically about how different PDF viewers can handle such files out of 10.6.7. So far, it's been shown that Acrobat is the only one having trouble with that particular part of the problem.

Basically, all I'm saying is it is premature to speculate about the best fix or who should do it.

Speculating based on the symptoms we've seen is all any of us outside of Apple or Adobe can do. Unless you're a programming engineer and have actually seen Apple's source code, guessing/speculating is our only venue.

Mugwumper wrote:
However, if this same site is viewed on a PC (which previously had no problems reading the files),
the .pdf's now will not open at all - even old files which have not changed, and the new one. One PC
is using Win7 Pro with Reader 10.0.1, and I've also used VMware with Win7 and IE8 - both these
fail to read any previously-readable files. Older XP systems with IE also fail. These all worked just
fine a month ago. What changed on the PC side - Adobe Reader?

It is your PC. You tell us. I am quite certain that if a PC could open a PDF a month ago and now cannot open the same PDF, then it is most assuredly not a Mac problem.

In order to perform any definitive analysis of this you really have to study the details. You must remove the new PDF, clear all browser caches of everything, then check again. If that fails on a PC, then that's the PC problem.

The is Apple Discussions. People come here all the time with one problem or another. I almost all cases the source of the problem is user error. By far, the biggest problem with this bug is that it will now be a catch-all excuse for any problem anyone has on a Mac. Now, it can't be fixed by just avoiding the specific problem area as the bugs pervade all operating systems and spread across space and time. It is simply not that big a deal. Don't use Postscript fonts in 10.6.7! Just don't do it. I don't care how good Trajan Pro looks. Use a different #$%^#@# font.

Well, it's not "my" PC . . . ;^) Otherwise, I agree with you - something's changed on the PC side. I'll
get the owners of them to figure out what their problem is. If it worked before, and doesn't now, it
ain't my fault . . . ;^)

I did try a change from Trajan Pro to Book Antiqua, and Adobe Reader can handle it just fine. So that's
an easy fix for my little HOA newsletter. But I'm really concerned about all the tax returns I did on
TurboTax - I've saved them all as .pdf's and the newer ones (post-10.6.7) hang on the 3rd page which
is the start of the 1040. Fortunately, some were done before 10.6.7 in February and March.

I guess we just wait for a 10.6.8 or some other patch . . .

Kurt Lang wrote:
So far, it's been shown that Acrobat is the only one having trouble with that particular part of the problem.

Not true. For example, some are reporting problems with Preview. Even among those reporting problems with Acrobat (or Reader or Distiller or whatever) there isn't that much agreement on what fonts are involved. Some even say the problems are not limited to OpenType Postscripts fonts, while others say only some OpenType Postscripts fonts are affected.

Speculating based on the symptoms we've seen is all any of us outside of Apple or Adobe can do.

Which doesn't make it any less a guessing game based on information as yet inadequate to decide who should fix what.

For example, some are reporting problems with Preview. Even among those reporting problems with Acrobat (or Reader or Distiller or whatever) there isn't that much agreement on what fonts are involved. Some even say the problems are not limited to OpenType Postscripts fonts, while others say only some OpenType Postscripts fonts are affected.

Yes, I've also seen those. I did test 10.6.7 on a completely clean install pretty thoroughly. I used about 40 randomly chosen fonts of each font type; OT PS, OT TT, Type 1 PS, legacy Mac TT and legacy PC TT. No matter how I created the PDF files, the only fonts that didn't work, and then only in the Acrobat Reader, were OT PS.

Mugwumper wrote:
I guess we just wait for a 10.6.8 or some other patch . . .

Never wait for a patch. There is no due date or guarantee that it will ever show up.

Minimize your risk by disabling your Postscript fonts.

Also, I doubt there will be much of a danger of your PDFs being unreadable. From what I can tell, Apple is creating valid PDFs. It is just that Adobe code can't read them. They sold that code to printer manufacturers and apparently to Microsoft as well. Apple Preview will always be able to open these PDFs. On the PC side, non-Adobe software like FoxIt and SumatraPDF can also read these files just fine.

This isn't a case of Apple not complying with the format. It is a case of Apple not testing against the "de-facto standard" set by Adobe's 20 year-old code.

Well, I just filed another report with Apple, and thought I'd copy it here since some of things I’m reading above seem incorrect. At any rate, the practical conclusion, from my point of view and experience, is quite definitely to go to back to 10.6.6. So here goes:

Regarding update 10.6.7: Epic failure! I've already written once to complain about all the font problems the latest update introduced and about all the PDFs which were destroyed as a consequence of my saving them with Preview.app. (These included ebooks from rather very respected publishers such as Oxford University Press and journals papers from Studia Logica and such.) Since there hasn't been ANY echo from Apple itself (which in itself I find utterly unacceptable), I decided to go back to the last version. Which cost me 2h! So now my MacBook is running fine again—YET what I just noticed now is that your ### update has destroyed many more PDFs than I thought. So for example last week I downloaded a book from springerlink.com, and read and annotated it (I first tested this of course with 10.6.7 but since nothing happened I continued). Well, THAT book too is now unusable in Preview. As a matter of fact, Preview simply HANGS (i.e. I have to force quit). Adobe Acrobat is a bit more communicative: it tells me it "Cannot extract the embedded font 'JONLCU+Times-Italic'". Super super lamentable.

That's nonsense. Times is a TrueType font and is not affected at all. Preview in 10.6.6 can open these PDFs with no problem - as can every single other PDF viewer except Adobe. I don't know what problem you are having, but it has nothing to do with this issue.

And to think I booted into 10.6.6 for this...

Sorry, I'm afraid but I think that's not nonsense. I mean I do understand what you're saying about Adobe, but the problem with Preview is real. And I somehow doubt that it's just my machine. I won't upload the corrupt book, but here’s one of the papers I downloaded and read a few days ago while on 10.6.7, and which I'm now unable to open with Preview:

<Link Removed>

(Since the file is really corrupt, I think there shouldn’t be a problem with copyright; but in any case I'll take it down in a few moments.)

My predictions would be as follows...

On 10.6.6: You cannot open the file with Preview.
On 10.6.7: You can open the file; but if you save it once or twice as PDFX, it'll be illegible.

I just downloaded a new version of it and I have no problem in saving it as many times as I want as a PDFX on 10.6.6.

So is it just my machine?

<Edited by Host>

It may just be your machine. That PDF says you created it with InDesign - all bets are off. I'm not booting into 10.6.6 tonight. Your PDF seems to exhibit typical symptoms. I can't open it in Acrobat Reader for Windows. It opens fine in FoxIt for Windows. I will check it in 10.6.6 tomorrow.

A precision: it wasn't me who created the PDF but an author who goes by the name "u674" (presumably one of people at the Press); and Adobe InDesign CS2 (4.0), which is specified as the Content Creator, was running on his or her machine.

etresoft wrote:
Don't use Postscript fonts in 10.6.7! Just don't do it.

you are registered more than 6 years for discussion and writing such idiotic and inexplicable statements - i cant understand. you have no notion, whats going on in an advertising agency, right?

so what if you wanna take a vacation and have aviatophobia. what would be a better suggestion? to swim or to visit a seminar? - guess, stay at home.

Kurt Lang wrote:
No matter how I created the PDF files, the only fonts that didn't work, and then only in the Acrobat Reader, were OT PS.

By "Acrobat Reader" can I assume that you mean what is currently called "Adobe Reader" as opposed to the Acrobat Pro products? If so, what version(s) of Reader did you try? Did you try Acrobat Pro as well, or any other Adobe product? By "completely clean install" do you mean you installed this or these apps from original sources as well as the OS?

And when you say no matter how you created the PDF's, do you mean that even if you used an Adobe PDF generator instead of the 10.6.7 Quartz one, the fonts didn't work? Was it all OT PS fonts or just some of them? If just some, were they the most current versions, versions that came with an Adobe app, separate purchases, or what? Were they all Adobe fonts or were fonts from other font makers involved as well?

I apologize for all the questions. I think you have answered some of them in other posts, but I've lost track of who said what. The specific details of each user's symptoms seem increasingly important in trying to find the cause (causes?) of this mess. If we can at least find a repeatable "formula" that generates the same results for everybody, I can't help but think it would help Apple/Adobe/whomever come up with a fix.