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  • Bob Jacobson Level 1 Level 1 (115 points)

    Oh please, now it's us terrible users imposing our wants on the poor designers?


    Were you asked what you wanted from the Forums, a redesign or reforms?


    No one I know was consulted, neither publicly nor privately.


    This was just foisted this on us.  Really bad form.


    Especially from Apple.

  • Bob Jacobson Level 1 Level 1 (115 points)

    So that's what this is about, getting us ready for iOS?  Thanks, Apple.  I can't wait...not.

  • Bob Jacobson Level 1 Level 1 (115 points)

    In other words, dumbing it down.

  • Topher Kessler Level 6 Level 6 (9,790 points)

    The best thing I can say to all the gripers out there is "shush." The new design has been out for a day, and Apple's representatives have been here taking feedback, offering help, and fixing bugs. There will undoubtedly be changes implemented, and refinements made...allow them to do this at a reasonable pace.


    ...and no, Apple doesnt owe us anything. They courteously mentioned a few months ago that the Communities would be coming, so be happy you got that.

  • Meg St._Clair Level 8 Level 8 (46,725 points)

    Bob Jacobson wrote:


    Were you asked what you wanted from the Forums, a redesign or reforms?


    No one I know was consulted, neither publicly nor privately.


    This was just foisted this on us.  Really bad form.


    People have been submitting suggestions to Apple, both through the forum and through the feedback links for years. The amount of complaining about the forum software has been extensive and detailed. The impending change was announce back in August of last year. Since then, people have been making specific requests, "When the forums change, can you...." The new forums have also been in beta testing with a smaller group of users, as I understand it, for months. Just because you were unaware of who was asked what or when doesn't mean it didn't happen. 


    Many of the changes we're seeing have been requested over and over and over (better editing options, ability to upload pictures, etc).

  • artwire Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    didnt work for me... you can scroll part of the way down the page using the usual method, and then at a certain point it just stops dead and wont scroll any further.  Maybe they're forcing an ios update (this is a 2g ipod touch)....????


    actually just tried it again, and if you scroll over sideways first, so the menu you want is almost OFF the screen to the left, then  do the two fingered swipe about 8 times you can get it to move a little. It's a really odd interface ... that left section doesn't load fully as the right hand column which is frequently updating seems to obstruct it.  It may work better on newer devices, but this is one of the strangest layouts I've seen...  recent content seems to take precedence over the menu choices.

  • robogobo Level 2 Level 2 (290 points)

    Bob, please, take a deep breath and look before you post.  Someone asked about scrolling on an iOS device, and the reply was therefore about iOS.  Calm down and stop posting junk.

  • Meg St._Clair Level 8 Level 8 (46,725 points)

    artwire wrote:


    didnt work for me... you can scroll part of the way down the page using the usual method, and then at a certain point it just stops dead and wont scroll any further.  Maybe they're forcing an ios update (this is a 2g ipod touch)....????

    It works fine on my iPads.

  • Scott Newman Level 2 Level 2 (220 points)

    I'm really disappointed but not at all surprised with this change in the discussion forums.


    There are millions of new Apple users now thanks to iPhone, iPads, iPod Touches, and even Macs.  Most of these people just want to do relatively simple things on their devices.  They don't create much in the way of spreadsheets, writing, or drawing documents. 


    As a result, Apple has needed to dumb down the discussion forums with more eye candy and so they look better on iOs devices.  That's all well and good...for those people.


    However, where do the hard-core Apple users go now?  With the old forums, I could bore down with the right boolean search and find answers to very detailed questions relatively quickly. I could quickly scan relevant forums looking for threads with the most views and most replies (helpful when a new version of Mac OSX is released and I want to find out the big issues.  I could display LOTS of information on my display. 


    In a more general sense, what are the serious Mac (not iOS) users going to do as Apple's world gravitates more and more toward iOS?  Some of us actually create things.  Some of us actually do work on our computers.  I have thousands of work-related files, many with similar names, that depend upon a rigid folder-oriented filiing structure to locate my documents.  All of the changes I've read about in Lion indicate that the Mac OS world is going to become a lot let useful for people like me.  Is Linux the answer?


    This isn't a rant.  I've been using Macs with the 1984 128K Mac.  I'm just wondering where I'll have to go in order to do real personal computer productivity in the future.  I've got a late 2010 13" MacBook Air that I love.  But, in the end, it's all about the software.  Apple is, without question, seriously dumbing down Mac OS X.  It's a smart marketing move.  For me it's terrible.

  • Bob Jacobson Level 1 Level 1 (115 points)

    Exceptionally well put.  I have been using Apple products since 1981, when the II showed up.  Had the first one in the California Legislature, just to try it out.


    When crack-dealing gangsters moved into a basement apartment below ours, in Seattle, we took four things -- the scrapbook, the cat, and our Mac Classics -- before we called the police and dashed for the door.


    I have persisted in the use of Mac products for three decades because, despite insistence that I go PC, I always believed that Macs gave more value for the money AND WERE EASIER TO USE.


    Now we are in the era of digital toys and everything hip has to work on a smartphone or an iPod (though those are already passé).  That makes the smartphones a lot better and computer use a lot worse.  I have a multi-thousand dollar computer capable of amazing feats and it's being used to fumble around in a child's directory.


    This system is not easier to use.  I don't understand the functionality of uploading pictures.  (How sweet, you can link them to your Facebook account.)  Nor did I come to the Forums seeking "community."  I preferred exchanges where one smart person told another smart person how to solve a problem.  The filtering provided by the system ensured mainly smart people used it.


    I'm still waiting for someone among this "revision's" champions to point out a new feature that is more than a designer's trifle.  Apple let us down this time tampering with one of the most important Support resources. 

  • Topher Kessler Level 6 Level 6 (9,790 points)

    Dumbed down? Featureless?


    The discussions are more feature-packed than ever. The only major difference is a styling issue that will appeal to some and not to others.


    Hardcore users?


    I've been using Macs for nearly two decades and definitely consider myself a "hardcore user" and these forums are fine. The searching will get better as people use it--thats just the nature of these sites. Apple has done a good job at preserving functionality while making things user-friendly. Unfortunately people tend to see this as a bad thing that they somehow cannot's almost like the old excuses that Windows users made about the Mac OS being "too friendly" we have this happening in the Mac community? Lol...


    I guess there always will be these silly "Mac" vs "PC" arguments, with all kinds of dumb details (mainly arguments over superficial UI elements) to back them up.


    If folks want to be "hardcore," boot your system to Single User mode and run it from there, with all the risks and rawness of your system at your disposal. Program a new interface for yourself, and get things cranking in true "hardcore" fashion. It would be a motorcycling blindfolded on highway 1 in the rain!

  • Colin Robinson Level 6 Level 6 (8,305 points)

    See if 3 finger scrolling works.

  • YousafKhan Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Take things one step by step man. Everything has its advantages and Apple clearly understands that. I am not boasting about their large enterprise on the market or Steve Job's philosophies but things get better and worse. Do not go thinking about what you what, your just one out a million.

  • Jaco58 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    This thing wreaks of iPhone and iPad technonlgy ....not at all friendly. Why I can't even use my original

    Apple ID to get on the system. Had to create a new one! Geez...what a step back, or in the wrong direction.

    A 2,000 dollar MBP and I can't get in, while an iphone or ipad user is in strabucks having a hoot wiht this

    new design and system ....probably look sweet on their devices (rolls eyes)



  • Scott Newman Level 2 Level 2 (220 points) is something specific.  The screen snapshot below was taken on a 13" MacBook Air using the latest version of Firefox.  The Firefox window is maximized.  It includes the first page of threads in the Mac OS X discussion forum.


    Note two things:  1) How much wasted white space there is; and 2) How few threads are being displayed.  I've got all of my browsers set to display things pretty small, but it makes no difference in terms of the new discussion forums.  When I max my browser window, the space used for the discussion forums is still tiny as compared to the width of my screen.  Maybe that's great on iOS, I don't know.  But I simply can't display nearly as much information now as before.  It can easily be fixed with some additional preference settings if Apple will help.


    Screen shot 2011-04-17 at 4.01.36 PM.jpg


    But...I stand by my assertion that the new forums, at least in terms of way information is displayed, is dumbed down for people who are either using iOS devices or who simply can't process tons of small text on a screen in front of them.  Others will likely disagree.  That's OK.


    Sorry...can't resist a last [sarcastic] comment:  The solution is to obviously go back to a 14" 800x600 pixel CRT monitor.  That way, I'll be making best use the new forum display technology.  Yes, it's sarcasm...but it's true.  When I resize my browser window the information display in the forums should be wider as well.  How hard is that?