whether there is any way to make them match, eg by editing the preview page numbers.
No. The page numbers on the actual page are put there by the application which created the PDF. If they differ from the page numbers in the PDF file, there's nothing that can be done, other than creating the PDF file again, or by editing the PDF file with a tool such as Adobe Acrobat.
This is not a total solution, but it will help you out if your problem is similar to mine. Preview in LION has a great feature of letting you delete pages from a PDF. In the PDF I was using, there were about 7 pages of Table of Contents information before they got to what they were labeling as page 1. I simply made a duplicate of the PDF I was working with and then deleted the first 7 pages. Then I closed the document and re-opened it in preview. Walla. The page numbers matches.... saving me much headach and frustration.
I did not need the TOC pages, as the PDF had a good outline view I could use to navigate to specific chapters. But now when I made notes of page numbers for the project I was working on, I would not mess up and put the wrong one in my notes.
If you need the TOC, you can save it as a seperate file, and have it up side by side. And when you look up the page number, it will be easier to find.
Apple should really allow for this and let you specify a spot on each page that it will look for "page Number" text. Then dispaly this text instead of just dumbly labeling everything as 1,2,3,4. That way books with page numbering like 1-4, 1-5, 2-1, 2-1 would still work.
Tim Bobo wrote:
Preview in LION has a great feature of letting you delete pages from a PDF.
This is available in SL; also, I believe, in Leopard (of course, if the PDF file is not protected).
Apple should really allow for this
Apple is not in charge of the PDF specification.
I am sorry, I must have not been communciating clearly. I am not suggesting a chagne to the PDF specifications. I am suggesting Apple implement more of the specificaion to allow us to manipulate non-copy protected PDF files so they are easier to use in preview. There are a variety of tools that do this, and Preview should be one of them.
One nice UI way to do this would be to tell preview to look in a certain spot to find the correct page numbering, and then intellegently update the document.
It would be nice if every PDF author took the time to set up their document with proper page numbering. But in reality, they don't... probably because the process in most tools can be combersome.
But the specifications allow for it. It would just be nice for Preview to become the easy tool to fix non-copy protected documents. If paperless is really going to fully take over, end users need this basic functionality at their fingertips to optimally fully productive.
And on a similar note. Apple should be exporting PDF outline views and correct page numbering from their Mac apps, and from my experience they don't.
Tim, I have created PDFs with InDesign that had roman numeral page numbering up to page xii, then Arabic numbering from that point onward. I have opened those documents in Acrobat (with page numbering intact), added pages, renumbered pages, and deleted the page numbers altogether from the cover and back cover. Then I have opened those edited PDFs in Preview, and the page (thumbnail) numbering is still accurate, including no page numbers for the cover and back cover. HOWEVER, if I do any sort of "Save" or "Save As" from Preview, all my careful page numbering is replaced with Arabic numerals that start with "1" on the front cover. In addition, the bookmarks now link to the wrong pages.
This is very unfortunate because the Quartz Filter in Preview is incredibly efficient in reducing PDF file sizes, and I would like to take advantage of it, but I cannot if it's going to mess up page numbering and bookmarks.
if I do any sort of "Save" or "Save As" from Preview, all my careful page numbering is replaced with Arabic numerals that start with "1" on the front cover.
That's because Preview re-writes the PDF. If it's for production, you should never edit with Preview a PDF generated by InDesign; use Acrobat Pro instead.
The problem is actually implicit in the W3C link about the PageLabels optional parameter provided by Tim Bobo above. Preview is not a pro PDF editor; it's not a pro anything. Like Text Edit and other apps bundled with the OS, it's basically a free app which Apple gives away to the average user. If you need a pro PDF editor, you need to buy it -- nobody can afford to give away pro apps, not Microsoft, not Adobe, and certainly not Apple.
I will try once more. Because people seem to be really missing the point. The point I am trying to make is that for NOVICE users (which is the large majority of computer users our there). Opening a PDF to reference content can be confusing because the page numbers that Preview displayes don't match what is on the printed page.
Now PLEASE don't start telling me who's fault it is. I KNOW that the person who created the document can create it in such a way that the page numbers show up in Preview. That is not the point I am getting at.
The point I am trying to make is that Steve Jobs and Apple realy pushed preview when it came out and said it would be the best PDF reader our there. And in many ways it really is. It is a very nice PDF viewer. It is fast, easy to navigate etc. In many ways preview has helped a lot of people be more paperless.
But one of previews problems is that, if a novice user edits a PDF. Preview destroyes all carefully set up page numbering by the original author. The user never asked for this to happen. They just wanted to delete a page... or add a page. If preview allows for deleting and adding of pages, it should be more careful about the page numbering also.
Also, just as a reader that is focused on picking up any old ratty PDF and presenting it in the most pleasing way possible, it would be nice if preview could do more to help novice users sync up page numbers it displays with the page numbers printed on the pages they see. The truely intelligent self-aware AI PDF readers of the future will be doing this. ;-) Why not have preview make a step in that direction.
The size reduction talk was a side point, and there are many good solutions for this. But the fact that PDF has an option to reduce a PDF files size, but in doing so destroys document data, is another not so nice feature. Again, it speaks to the lack of intellegince Preview dispalys as it interacts with the user. A more intelligent program would not destroy data silently without warning the user first. When the user choose export or save, they expect all the data to be exported and saved. If preview is not smart enough to really do this, it should make that clear to the user. Export a simplified version... Save the main content... ;-) These items are very wordy and not really serious suggestions for a menu choice, but they show what Preview is actually meaning by the words Export and Save. And these meanings are not what any reasonbable thinking novice user would expect.
Only those really experienced with computer programs know that they are a liars and should never be fully trusted, especially if they are free.
Tim Bobo wrote:
[…] people seem to be really missing the point. […]
The point I am trying to make is that Steve Jobs and Apple realy pushed preview […]
[…] it would be nice if preview could do more […]
[…] If preview is not smart enough to really do this, it should make that clear to the user. […]
IMHO, you're wasting your time posting in this user-to-user forum feedback, comments, and suggestions to Apple regarding its products. I suggest
I do use Acrobat Pro, but it doesn't shrink the file size nearly as much as Preview
Depends on the options. Go to Advanced > PDF Optimizer… and you'll find plenty of settings to manipulate, as well as an "Audit space usage…" function, which will tell you the size of various components. The Preflight command also has many different profiles and options you can use. Acrobat is a pro tool -- that's why you had to mortgage your house to buy it.
The various options are described briefly in Acrobat's Help files. For more information, read this thread
It's a fairly comprehensive listing of where to find Adobe docs to help you use Acrobat effectively.