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Choppy Multiclip

Hi!


I'm having trouble with a multiclip in Final Cut 7. I have four angles in my multiclip and Final Cut can't seem to play the multiclip without the following happening:


After a few seconds it gets choppy and ultimately freezes. The audio continues though. When I hit pause, the freeze frame changes to the "current" freeze frame, as if the clip had rolled as normal.


I have changed the RT-settings to an absolute minimum (Playback video quality: Low. Playback Frame Rate: Quarter), but that doesn't help at all. Same thing if I click "Sync off", just to watch the current angle in Canvas - doesn't help.


The thing is, I made a multiclip containing only three of the four angles, and that clip works as a charm. It's like four streams is to much for the hardware to handle, but considering the workstation I'm working on that should not be a problem. Or should it?


Anyone had the same problem? And is there a solution, other than to wait for Final Cut X and hope for the best?


/Magnus


Here are the specs:


Software

Final Cut Pro 7


Hardware

Mac Pro

MacPro5,1

6-Core Intel Xeon

3,33 GHz

L2-cache: 256 K

L3-cache: 12 MB

Memory: 12 GB


Graphics

ATI Radeon HD 5870

VRAM: 1024 MB


Material

1280x720

Apple Prores 422 (HQ)

50 fps

Data Rate: 21,6MB/sec


Storage

Sonnet Fusion DX800 RAID

Posted on May 24, 2011 3:09 AM

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Question marked as Best reply

Posted on May 24, 2011 3:54 AM

ProRes HQ? Really? What camera is your footage from? HQ is a CPU hog and can easily bog down in Multiclips. Unless this is footage from a RED or other high end camera, you don't have any reason to use ProRes HQ. DSLR & AVCHD footage should use LT, HDV should use 422.

33 replies

May 24, 2011 5:03 AM in response to BenB

Thanks for the reply.


The footage is from four Sony HXC 100, recorded on four Aja Ki Pro HD Recorders. The Aja Ki Pros recorded in Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), and then these files were copied to the Sonnet Fusion DX800 RAID.


I've tried to convert the files to Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) in Compressor (ie the same format) just to see if maybe it was the Aja Ki Pro conversion that's causing the trouble, but sadly no.


I'll try to convert to to a "lighter" format, and see what happens.

May 24, 2011 6:33 AM in response to BenB

The MacPro has 12 MB RAM.


The Sonnet Fusion DX800 RAID has an ATTO R3-80 Card and is connected to the MacPro with two mini-SAS cables (AJA-tested at 650 MB/s)


http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fusiondx800raid.html


I also tested to convert the footage to ProRes 422 in Compressor (Data Rate now at 14,1 MB/s). The multiclip with all four angles doesn't freeze, but is still very choppy.


I'm wondering if it's a hardware problem, or if FCP7 can't use the all the power it has at hand? The six cores are working at 35% each. At best. When the the footage gets choppy or freezes, the percentage drops close or down to zero.

May 24, 2011 6:40 AM in response to MagnusLekberg

Okay, now, this might sound like a stupid suggestion, but, restart your computer. Only run Final Cut, make sure all other applications are closed, and try again. Many times restarting the computer and emptying caches can help. (just like with PCs).

You can also transcode the material to Apple ProRes Proxy to edit and get that first cut, then when you have the cut the way you like it, make the proxy material offline and reconnect with the HQ material.


Hope that helps.

May 24, 2011 7:24 AM in response to thrillcat editorial

Hey Thrillcat, what's with the negative vibes? 😕 Nobody is just suggesting to "wait for FCPX and hope for the best". If you had looked at my suggestion, I would imagine you would agree with it.

Is "sounds like a drive performance / throughput issue" a solution? Especially with a pro drive giving 650-880 mb/s?


If you had read the beginning of the thread, Magnus put " (Playback video quality: Low. Playback Frame Rate: Quarter"

You can't get much lower than that.


I agree with you that turning off the dropped frame warning will at least let him view the material from beginning to end without all those interruptions.


Lets all try to assist people here and not diss others.

May 24, 2011 8:08 AM in response to cineblue

Thanks everyone for all the help. Unfortunately restarting the computer didn't solve the problem, though I crossed my fingers.


Further, the dynamic RT-settings aren't working either, and I always keep the dropped frame warning turned off.


So, what's left? I'm thinking Apple ProRes Proxy might be the way to go here. Also, I'm thinking it's a hardware (Mac Pro/ATI Radeon HD 5870) and/or Final Cut problem, so I'm gonna go one round with the Apple Support and see what comes out of it.


It will be interesting to work with Final Cut X and multiclips, to say the least.


I'll be back with any development.


/Magnus

May 24, 2011 9:19 AM in response to cineblue

Negative vibes? 😕


If you read the OP, "wait for FCPX and hope for the best" was a direct quote, which means, yes, somebody WAS suggesting to "wait for FCPX and hope for the best." In fact THE ORIGINAL POSTER was suggesting it. 😼


Watiting for an update, whether it's to OSX, FCP, iMovie, or Word is never a solution. 😐


You're right. I did miss the fact that he ran the AJA system test and came back with 650. Where did you get your 880 number? 😕


99% of the time, letting FCP dynamically adjust the Quality and Frame Rate settings is going to give better quality than locking them in at one setting. 😀


You're the only db on here dissing anyone else. Until now. Take your 5 points and shove 'em up yer cinebum. 😠 I was trying to help the OP.

May 24, 2011 9:47 AM in response to thrillcat editorial

Play nice, children. You should be getting better throughput speeds out of that drive. It's a nice setup, and should scream. FCP 7 will use one and a half CPU cores, in fact. Motion templates and FXPlug effects use GPU.


Yes, FCP 7 will only use up to 4GB RAM, 2 of those for it's own internal processing, 2 for data, but you need the extra for OS, other apps open at the same time, etc. Graphics card should be handing a single monitor just fine. You don't have a second monitor on there, eh?


In the RT menu, you have Multiclip Playback checked, too, I'm sure.


Now, last question, what is the frame size, frame rate and length of clips, and what level of RAID are you running those drives at?


Seriously, you should be getting better perfromance.


BTW, FCP X is going to scream on your hardware, you'll be very happy.

May 24, 2011 10:08 AM in response to BenB

Actually, FCP assigns 1.5 GB to "related processes", leaving approximately 2.5GB for FCP itself. But that correction doesn't change anything WRT the OP's problem.


Magnus, you might try using Media Manager to create new media for this project, and making it ProRes 422 (LT). That way, after you've cut the sequence, you can Batch the original HQ clips back into the finish sequence.


As far as "better throughput", either the volume is pretty full or one of the hard drives has gone paws up. Magnus, you might check that out.


I'm guessing, but it is probably set up as RAID 5.


Magnus, I assume the clip and sequence settings match. True?

May 24, 2011 3:43 PM in response to BenB

BenB wrote:


Play nice, children. You should be getting better throughput speeds out of that drive. It's a nice setup, and should scream. FCP 7 will use one and a half CPU cores, in fact. Motion templates and FXPlug effects use GPU.

...snip...


Actually it's been my experience that FCP does use all your cores, just not to the max. Here's an FCP render on the CPU meters...


User uploaded file


However, Compressor, properly configured, looks like this:


User uploaded file


Hopefully FCP-X will be more like the latter than the former.


Patrick

May 25, 2011 1:51 AM in response to Patrick Sheffield

*Multiclip Playback is checked.

*I'm running a RAID 5.

*The RAID is using 6,3 TB out of 9TB, which I know may slow things down a little, but it still has 3,7 TB free to work with. I'm gong to check that volume for errors.

*The sequence settings match the clip.

*Actually BenB, I was using dual monitors. I disconnected one of them as you advised and, I'm sorry to say, it didn't help. But thanks for the heads up.


Frame Size: 1280x720

Frame Rate: 50 fps

Data Rate: 21,6-21,8

Length of clips: The longest is 1 hour 12 min (about 97 GB).


This sounds like it should be the problem, doesn't it; those close to 100 GB files? And take that times four in a multiclip. Well, thinking the same thing, I tried making a multiclip containing four angles with four pick-up clips of 1,24 GB each (54 seconds each) and the problem stayed the same.


Interesting about the usage of multiple cores. My experience is similar to Patrick Sheffield's: FCP uses all cores, but not very much of each.


As for Apple ProRes 422 (LT) and Apple ProRes Proxy, they both work equally good and run smoothly in multiclips with all four angles. If I can't get the 422 (HQ) files to work properly, I still have that option.


BenB: Can't wait to try out FCP X on this workstation :-)

May 25, 2011 2:48 AM in response to MagnusLekberg

When I'm looking at the Item Properties for the Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) multiclip it (of course) shows the data rate for the multiclip itself


V1: 21,8 A1: 21,8 A2: 21,8


as well as the data rate for all four included, individual clips


Angle 1

V1: 21,8 A1: 21,8 A2: 21,8


Angle 2

V1: 22,3 A1: 22,3 A2: 22,3


Angle 3

V1: 21,9 A1: 21,9 A2: 21,9


Angle 4

V1: 22,1 A1: 22,1 A2: 22,1


Should I count the data rate for the multiclip only (about 3x22=66MB/sec) or should I count the combined data rate of all the individual clips (about 15x22=330MB/sec)?


If the latter, it shouldn't be a problem for the Sonnet Fusion DX800 RAID, but maybe for the ATI Radeon HD 5870 graphics card. Here are the technical specs from amd.com:


Engine clock speed: 850 MHz

Processing power (single precision): 2.72 TeraFLOPS

Processing power (double precision): 544 GigaFLOPS

Polygon throughput: 850M polygons/sec

Data fetch rate (32-bit): 272 billion fetches/sec

Texel fill rate (bilinear filtered): 68 Gigatexels/sec

Pixel fill rate: 27.2 Gigapixels/sec

Anti-aliased pixel fill rate: 108.8 Gigasamples/sec

Memory clock speed: 1.2 GHz

  • Memory data rate: 4.8 Gbps
  • Memory bandwidth: 153.6 GB/sec
  • Maximum board power: 188 Watts


Thoughts, anyone? Or am I thinking the wrong way about this?


/Magnus

Choppy Multiclip

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