iPhone 4 cannot see AX extended network

Question

iPhone 4 cannot see AX extended network

Help! Last weekend, my WiFi went down - I have an AEBS on 1st floor and AX to extend network on 3rd floor. I tried resetting, etc., but didn't work - eventually got a new AX under warranty, and tried new AEBS, but iPhone still cannot see AX, but it can see AEBS fine. As last resort, tried accessing AX with my MacBookPro, and it works perfectly. iPhone cannot see AX at all, nor can kids' old iMac G5. Am thinking AX is extending 802.11n, even though I left all settings as "Automatic". Can anyone help, please? I have gone to Apple Store 3 days in a row, and I am tired of it!

Posted on May 29, 2011 10:37 PM

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Answer 1

Tesserax

Level 10

158,280 points

May 30, 2011 11:07 AM in response to Darlene Holston

It's quite possible the you will not be able to extend the AEBS with the AX (or any other router) due to both the distance and building material used in the walls/floors/ceilings between the routers. In order for the AX to successfully extend the wireless signal of the AEBS it must get a sufficient signal (SNR of 25+ dB). As a simple test, leaving the AX powered-off, can your MBP easily access the AEBS with a strong signal when at the location of the AX on the third floor?

If not, you may still be able to get the AEBS properly extended by placing the AX within a 25 dB SNR range of the AEBS. This may mean, relocating the AX to the second floor.

ref: SNR = Signal-to-Noise Ratio = Signal (in dBm) - Noise (in dBm). You can easily acquire the Signal and Noise values from System Profiler under the Network > AirPort > Interfaces > en1 > Current Network Information section.

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Answer 2

May 30, 2011 11:23 AM in response to Tesserax

I get good wireless connection on MacBookPro from AX, and when AX is powered down, it can see the AEBS, but none of my 802.11g devices can see the AX at all. I've moved the AEBS and AX to get SNR to about 20 to 25, so I don't think that's it. I think the AX is only operating in 5GHz range wirelessly. I can also plug into the AX with Ethernet cord, and my old MacBook G4 can get internet fine.

This is replacement AX - Apple Store told me the "antenna had a problem" on my AX purchased in December. That one was working fine until last weekend. I don't get it. I brought home a new AEBS yesterday, and no difference, so I don't think it's my old AEBS - the new one is going back today. Could it be the AX? BTW, if I put the AX on the 2nd floor, my iPhone can get the AEBS but not the AX - I monitored connectivity of wireless clients from Airport Utility, so I know the iPhone connected to the AEBS one floor away instead of the AX right next to it.

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Answer 3

Tesserax

Level 10

158,280 points

May 30, 2011 11:39 AM in response to Darlene Holston

As you already know, the AX can operate in either the 2.4 or 5 GHz radio band, but not both simultaneously. The lower band has less overall bandwidth, but has greater range due to less signal propagation loss and a better ability to penetrate obstacles like walls.

I am assuming that your AEBS is a simultaneous dual-band model, and if such, is broadcasting two wireless networks with the same Network Name (SSID). I would expect, due to distance, that the AX is only able to extend the AEBS' 2.4 GHz radio.

One thing to try, is to reconfigure the AEBS to use a unique name for its 5 GHz wireless network ... so you end up with two distinct wireless networks. Then, configure the AX to extend the AEBS' 2.4 GHz network to see if this improves the wireless bandwidth performance on the third floor. My hunch is that with both network names the same, the AX was just "close enough" to attempt to extend the 5 GHz network instead of the 2.4 GHz one ... and why you are getting the issues that you are seeing.

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Answer 4

May 30, 2011 12:50 PM in response to Tesserax

Thanks for your suggestion. I tried it, but I had the hardest time reconfiguring the AEBS - had to hard start it a dozen times before the iMac recognized it. I did as you said, renaming the 5GHz network and just extending the 2.4GHz network, but when I took the AX upstairs, it could not see the AEBS - so distance is worse with the 2.4GHz network. I noticed that, when they are side by side, the AX picks up the 5GHz automatically, and I can never get the AX to pick up the 2.4GHz. How can the AX be able to extend both networks?

Also, I used to have the guest network turned on. I think a guy at the Apple Store told me that the guest network is only 2.4GHz, but it has same range as the main network in my house.

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Answer 5

Tesserax

Level 10

158,280 points

May 30, 2011 12:55 PM in response to Darlene Holston

How can the AX be able to extend both networks?

Sorry, but the AX cannot extend both networks simultaneously. You would need another simultaneous dual-band AirPort Extreme to do so.

I do find it odd that the AX is able to unable to "see" the AEBS' 2.4 GHz network, but can the 5 GHz one from the upstairs location. I would have expected the opposite.

Have you tried configuring the AX with it adjacent to the AEBS, and then, moving it to its desired location? If not, please give it a try.

If, when placed upstairs, the AX fails to maintain the extended network, then there are only a few choices to consider:

Look for and eliminate any form of Wi-Fi interference that may be causing the poor AEBS signal at the location of the AX upstairs.
Connect both base stations by Ethernet, OR, if that isn't possible or practical, consider employing Powerline adapters at each base station location. These adapters will create a pseudo Ethernet connection using your home's electrical wiring circuit.

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Answer 6

May 30, 2011 1:35 PM in response to Tesserax

Thanks for all your help. Yes, I generally configure AX next to AEBS, then move it. I looked at signal strength of 2.4GHz and 5GHz signals - both pretty much the same, but noise loss less on 2.4GHz, so signal to loss ratio was much worse. I think what I need to do is run an Ethernet cable upstairs to AX, then allow wireless connectivity on AX - will this work? I'm going to Apple Store now to return the new AEBS, since my old one doesn't perform any differently.

It's very strange that the AEBS-AX combo I had worked relatively flawlessly for 5 months, and now I cannot recreate it. Have not rearranged furniture or anything like that. No idea!

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Answer 7

Tesserax

Level 10

158,280 points

May 30, 2011 1:48 PM in response to Darlene Holston

Before returning anything, please humor me with a few troubleshooting steps to rule out any issues with the new Extreme base station.

I would like for you to use your MBP to take Signal & Noise measurements on both the 2.4 & 5 GHz bands. Leave your AEBS configured to use two unique Network Names for each band. Also, leave the AX removed from power as I only want you to get these values for the AEBS.

Please note the Signal & Noise values, within System Profiler, as I mentioned earlier using your MBP. First take the readings near the AEBS. Do this for each network, so you should have two pairs of values for each band. Of course, to do this properly, you will need to disconnect, and then, reconnect to the proper wireless network.

Now take the same readings from the third floor location where you have the AX placed. Again, please take them for both networks.

Ok, with all of the readings noted, please calculate the SNR values. You should come up with four; two for each location; one be band.

Please post your results.

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Answer 8

May 30, 2011 3:33 PM in response to Tesserax

Sorry, AEBS is returned. I've spent way too much time on this, and it is not going to be fixed easily. I've got to get back to work. Really, really appreciate your interest in this. I think I'm going to have to run some Ethernet cable in the house. Maybe it was a fluke that the WiFi worked miraculously for 5 months!

FYI, from what I can remember, with the AEBS on the 1st floor and the AX on the third, signal loss for 5GHz was -70-ish, and noise loss was mid -90-ish. With AX on the second floor, signal loss for 2.4 GHz was mid -50-ish, and noise loss was mid -70-ish - not good no matter what. Funny thing is, AX used to be even farther away, with AEBS is worse spot, and I could get WiFi on iPhone on the 4th floor. Now I will just have to monitor my 3G usage.

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Answer 9

Jun 7, 2011 5:01 PM in response to Darlene Holston

My WiFi came back after being down for about a week and a half. It is miraculously as good as it was before it went down. After all the fiddling with the routers, I had given up and was going to hire an electrician to run an Ethernet cable under the house and through the wall. I still don't know what it was.

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