Previous 1 2 3 Next 32 Replies Latest reply: Feb 18, 2007 8:02 AM by Micio123 Go to original post
  • Gerrit DeWitt Level 4 Level 4 (3,900 points)
    Anyone try this where the server has been updated to Mac OS X Server 10.4.7 and the client has been updated to 10.4.7?

    The Helios Ethershare software uses AFP 2.x, Mac OS X Server 10.3/10.4 uses AFP 3.2, so that's probably one of the differences. AFP 3 uses a strict POSIX or Effective (POSIX+ACL) permissions model, where AFP 2 uses a model that is based off of POSIX permissions, but works slightly differently (for example, new file POSIX permissions aren't set by umask).

    --Gerrit
  • Holger Bartsch Level 1 Level 1 (75 points)
    I have just tested this issue on 10.4.7 server with 10.4.7 clients.

    The bug is still there. After about 35 copies the original and the latest copy just disappeared!

      Mac OS X (10.4.7)   Apple Certified Technical Coordinator
  • Thomas Kaiser Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    The Helios Ethershare software uses AFP 2.x,


    Depends on the version. EtherShare supports AFP 3.1 since approx. 2 years now (publicicly available 'AFP 3.1 preview' for EtherShare 3.1). The UB version (released at the end of last year) included AFP 3.1 support from the very beginning.

    The following table might be of interest (sorry, available currently in german only): http://tiffy.ath.cx:8060/afp-server-vergleich.php

    Mac OS X Server 10.3/10.4 uses AFP 3.2


    AFP 3.2 came with 10.4. But the only relevant differences between AFP 3.1 and 3.2 are the support of ACLs at the AFP protocol layer.

    so that's probably one of the differences. AFP 3 uses a strict POSIX or
    Effective (POSIX+ACL) permissions model


    No, it depends. If you disabled 'unix privileges' in favour of 'inherited privileges' then you don't get POSIX but instead 'classic' semantics.

    Regards,

    Thomas

       
  • Gerrit DeWitt Level 4 Level 4 (3,900 points)
    Good catch on the AFP 3.1 support for Ethershare. That was my mistake!

    And you're right about AFP 3.2 being first used in 10.4. I think 3.1.1 was used in 10.3, and 3.1 was introduced with 10.2.


    > so that's probably one of the differences. AFP 3 uses a strict POSIX or
    Effective (POSIX+ACL) permissions model


    No, it depends. If you disabled 'unix privileges' in favour of 'inherited privileges' then you don't get POSIX but instead 'classic' semantics.


    I think we're misunderstanding each other here. We both know that you can use POSIX permissions (ACLs disabled) or enable ACLs and use the ACLs+POSIX Effective Permissions model. That's just a filesystem-level change - ACLs off or on.

    But I'm curious about what you mean here. With ACLs disabled, there's the option to use the "Inherit Permissions from Parent" AFP model, which I believe writes sets afpuse_parentprivs to 1 for the chosen share in the /config/SharePoints/share record in the local NetInfo domain.

    What I was referring to was the fact that AFP 2.2 does not technically use a POSIX permissions model, while AFP 3.x does. Namely, umask isn't consulted for the POSIX bits assigned to newly-created files/folders. In AFP 2.2, that information was inherited from the folder's parent. I'm referencing this Apple document: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107326, which explains why AFP 3.x is required for Mac OS X home directory use, and Apple File Services Admin Guide which mandates that the Inherit Permissions from Parent AFP option not be used for home directories. That's what I mean when saying that AFP 3.x uses a strict POSIX model. I know that it has the 2.2-like Inherit option on a per-share point basis.

    Are you referring to the permissions_model property in the com.apple.AppleFileServer.plist file? That can be unix_permissions or classic_permissions, which I think emulates AFP 2.2 behavior on a server-wide level. Helios Ethershare calls classic_permissions "smart permissions" I think, but I'm not really familiar with Ethershare.

    Do I understand you correctly?

    --Gerrit
  • MacSEK Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Does anybody try to disable spotlight on Mac OS X Server 10.4.7? We have some strange problems using AFP shared homedirectories and other AFP sharepoints on two OD Replikas (saving Problmes with Office and stuff). So i think about disabling spotlight at any server even in case i only get some more performance on my servers.

    Could disabling spotlight on the servers cause any other strange behavior? Mayby affecting the OD / LDAP, AFP or anything else?

    MacSEK
  • Jack of all trades Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I've just turned Spotlite off on our 10.4.7 Server. However, can't reboot yet as too many users logged in and I wouldn't be popular!

    Will reboot later tonight for the change to take effect and let you know the outcome.
  • Jack of all trades Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Happy to report this getround appears to work fine. Rebooted the x.4.7 server, logged in to server AFP share from x.4.7 client, using MS AD authentication. All machines are bound to MS AD.

    Client could now duplicate files to same folder or anywhere else in same volume with no problems.

    Re-checked hostconfig, still says SPOTLIGHT=-NO-

    We'll see whether there are any side effects, or if it somehow creeps back in. So far so good though
  • gerd muller Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    I have to come back on this. Does anybody solved this problem without disabling Spotlight?
    I just installed from scratch a new client with 10.4 and then combo update to 10.4.7. The server is on 10.3.9, so no Spotlight there. When I login with a network user, file duplication fails.

    BUT: if I mount the same home directory with command-k via AFP as a "normal" AFP mount, file duplication never fails! Same client, same server, same data! Isn't this funny?

    Gerd

      Mac OS X (10.4.7)  
  • gerd muller Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    So: Users with AFP mounted home directories have the choice of loosing files or disable spotlight?? C'mon Apple: FIX THIS, but subito, please!
  • llacasse Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    I can confirm that by disabling spotlight on the server DOES NOT fix this issue. However disabling spotlight on the workstation so far, as been working 100% reliable. (this with duplicating a simple text file on an AFP mounted home directory using MacOS X Server 10.4.7 and MacOS X 10.4.7 on the workstation using XSan 1.3)

    I will do further testing with other apps.
  • Jonathan Konrad Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Just confirming, same problem. I too noticed this back with 10.4.2 clients on 10.3.x servers. Back then I foolishly blamed the 10.3.x server and so did an Apple tech that convinced me to upgrade our servers.

    So this school year we have all 10.4.7 servers and more 10.4.7 clients. However this issue of dropped files is killing me! I still have a few labs of 10.3.9 and they never show this problem.

    Spotlight was enabled on my servers. Turning this off appeared to slow down the frequency of this error. However, I had to turn it off on the 10.4.7 clients to really stop this.

    Odd this hasn't been fixed by Apple
  • jtmunier Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Hello everybody,

    I have the same problem at work, just I can say in OS X 10.4.8 environnement (servers+ clients) nothing have change, i must disable spotlight for network user who acces to their home folder by AFP because duplicate and copy failed and erase original data some time.

    I hope Apple could resolve it soonly.

    Have a great fun day...

    JT
  • havinabubble Level 1 Level 1 (135 points)
    can confirm disabling Spotlight on the CLIENT stops the duplicate/copy vanishing trick with immediate effect. But what's the long term solution? :-\

    Currently OS X Server: 10.3.9
    Variety of clients: 10.4.x: 10.4.7, 10.4.8 have successfully been turned off and tested with immediate effect.

    Don't seem to suffer the problem on 10.3.x clients!

    Also have a 10.4 server waiting in the wings...but want to know if its worth rolling out considering this outstanding problem

    TIA
  • Gerrit DeWitt Level 4 Level 4 (3,900 points)
    That's good to hear confirmation. As I had suspected, this problem was client-side.

    Unfortunately, the fix may be Mac OS X 10.5. Fortunately, that's only a few months away.

    If you haven't bought Apple Maintenance Program licenses, now would be a good time to do so - they provide current Mac OS X releases for three years!

    --Gerrit
  • Andrew Ballem Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
    Sorry to dumb this thread down, but what will turning off Spotlight lose me? Will that mean I'll lose search functionality, or just lose the search feature in the top right corner? We use searching quite a lot here across our servers to find files across all servers instead of manualls hunting for them so I don't want to lose that!

    I'm trying to solve the bug of when in Photoshop we go to save a file located in a NHD and it says it can't because "write access was not granted" and I'm hoping this might do it.

    Thanks!