Final Cut Pro X - Import AVCHD?

I’ve done some research, and here are my findings. Guess this could be old news for you, but choose to share anyway. I guess it will be a long comment based on my scripts…

Made a video recording as AVHCD/FXP: 1080/50i, 17 Mbps quality (Canon Legria HF M52).

- 38 sec clip.

1. Imported to iMac wireless,; 77.8 Mb .mts file (separate file).

- Played in VLC, Media information – H264 / 1920x1080 / 50 fps / A52 Audio codec.

2. Rewrapped WiFi transferred MTS file in ClipWrap; 84.1 Mb .mov file.

- Rewrapped only (didn’t alter video sample).

- Played in QT, Media information – H.264 / 1920x1080 / 25 fps / 24 bit linear PCM.

- Not possible for me to observe any quality loss as compared to raw MTS played in VLC.

- Is there a concern that the interlaced 25 fps (50i) is transcoded directly to 25 fps? Can you loose video quality from ClipWrap just ”deleting” the extra fields? I Know 50i in fact is 25 fps, but just asking if the interlaced fields are deleted as part ot the rewrapping (as also would be the case when importing file for video editing).

3. Imported the rewrapped file into iMovie (just for reference).

- Imported without ”Optimize video”, got a 292.8 Mb .mov file from iMovie.

- Media information – AIC (obviously) / 1920x1080 / 24.97 fps / 16 bit linear PCM.

- Now the image seems more ”grained” as compared to rewrap / MTS in VLC.

4. Exported file from iMovie.

- ”Export with QT”; H.264 / 1920x1080 HD / 25 fps / 24 bit linear PCM, Little Endian.

- End up with 104.5 Mb .mov file (with media info as above).

- The image is still ”grained” as compared to rewrap / MTS (though better compared to AIC).

5. Imported the rewrapped media file into FCP X (no ProRes transcoding).

- No extra ”Event file”, as the Event file is the rewrapped file from (2).

- Hence, no quality change to video.

- The CPU usage is high, and slowing things down, though managable on my iMac.

- Share in FCP X; 592 Mb .mov file / ProRes 422 / 1920x1080 / 25 fps / 24 bit lin. PCM.

- The image obviously comes out as the same quality as the rewrapped MTS file.

- Though, obviously not the desired file size (as compared to the ClipWrap file).

6. Imported the rewrapped media file into FCP X (enabling optimized/proxy media).

- Under ”Event file”;

- Proxy media; 71.6 Mb(!), ProRes 422 / 960x540(!) / 25 fps / 16 bit linear PCM

- Opt. media; 71.6 Mb(!), ProRes 422 / 960x540(!) / 25 fps / 16 bit lin. PCM.

- It seems as the proxy/opt media reduce video quality.

- Share in FCP X; end up with the same clip as in (5).

7. Finally managed to hook up the camera to my iMac using USB;

- Note; just having 1 ea AVCHD clip on the internal memory.

[i]The mounted disc on my iMac show the exact same AVCHD file as in (1), obviously.

[ii] Import from camera under iMovie (archive);

- The AVCHD file in the Mac archive plays directly in QT.

- Media information - same as (1) and (2), 77.8 Mb / 25 fps / AC3 codec.

- Same quality as (1) and (2).

- Hence, output quality from iMovie expected same as WiFi direct transfer.

[iii] Import from camera under FCP X (proxy media);

- The ”Event” .mov file is played in QT.

- Media information – H.264 / 1920x1080 / 25 fps / 16 bit linear PCM.

- Video quality seems similar to (2) with WiFi transfer.

Conclusion:

- WiFi transfers from canon camcorder seems of equal quality to USB transfers.

- Who says folder archive need to be intact, and why?

- Rewrapped .mts files seem not to be reduced in quality from ClipWrap.

- FCP X is superior to iMovie (as would be expected).

- Still, not sure how to best optimize/edit my AVCHD video.

ALL TIPS ARE RECEIVED GRATEFULLY!

PS1! My iMac is a late 2012 version, I5 (2.9 GHz), 8GB, Fusion Drive (128 GB), 1 TB HD.

PS2! Could share/dump my printscreens for each steps (showing the different video qualities) for those really interested, but do not own an easy dropbox for share.

but just asking if the interlaced fields are deleted as part ot the rewrapping

No, they're not.

iMovie dumps a field. You chose large in iMovie, which uses that 960x540, degrading the image, especially in AIC.

- Who says folder archive need to be intact, and why?

Then you have to use ClipWrap to rewrap the footage before you can import. You have also lost all camera metadata associated with the file. With the entire folder structure you can import directly into FCP.

Yes, but still, the time I'll be using for transferring WiFi / rewrapping my MTS file via ClipWrap (which do not take any time at all), you'll be searching the USB cable / transferring your AVCHD file anyway, so I cannont see any disadvantage of this method (still, I'm more humble to you than seemingly, just want to make a point).

Note, the output format of the WiFi separate file is similar to the folder quality via USB, so I do not see the reason for having the whole SD directory.

you'll be searching the USB cable / transferring your AVCHD file anyway,

Eh? You plug the card or camera into the computer. Import into FCP. One step. But whatever. Do it your way.

You really do want to back up and archive the card, but you're OK with two step process, good for you. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.

Hi kjoglum,

Thanks for sharing your test results with us.

Like Tom, I can't really understand why you wouldn't just import directly to FCPX.

What we mean by 'import directly to FCPX' is this: connect the camera via USB, then do nothing more than open FCPX, choose import, select the camera, and select the files you want from the thumbnails of each video clip in the import dialog box, and go OK? On import, the selected AVCDH files will be copied into your FCPX event for you automatically by FCPX. If your preferences are set to create proxy media, then that will happen in the background automatically after the AVCHD files have been copied.

This is the way I do it, and just about everyone else too. We do it like this because it is MUCH simpler and quicker this way. Additionally, FCPX gets metadata from the folder structure during the import process that you will not get from importing solitary MTS files. It is MUCH easier than the hassle of manually coping files from the card to a mac (and making a folder to put them in), clipwrapping them, then going through the import routine to get them into to FCPX, and then managing the originals (assuming like most of us, that you want copies of the originals in the FCPX events folders so they are easily located when needed).

The only users who manually copy individual MTS files using the Finder and then clipwrap and *then* import are people whose cameras will not appear in the FCPX import dialog box, or where they have a whole bunch of mts files but no folder structure. They have no option but to go the long tedious way that you describe. No-one else does it the long way anymore.

So please try the direct import into FCPX approach - it should work, and it's a lot easier.

Chris.

PS - Please don't say you 'imported (files from the camera) to iMac wireless' etc. *Import*, to Mac users, means using an Import menu in an application to bring a a document into the file management system of the application or into a document managed by an application. We don't 'Import' a file to a mac when we manually copy a MTS file from a card to a folder on a Mac. When we do this, we 'COPY' it. So it is a bit confusing when you talk about importing to your iMac, because we don't really know what you mean. Please say 'copy' when you manually move a file from one location to another, or manually create a new copy of a file somewhere, and please say 'import' only when you mean it. That way we all understand better what you mean.

PSS - FCPX will be a lot faster on your machine w 16G of ram, and even faster still if you have all your movie data is a solid state disk. If you want to edit native AVCHD, that's what you need.

I'd be interested to know if kjoglum beleieves there ae any advanatages to hie/her workflow and, of so, what they are.

There must be a reason why kjoglum chooses this rather complicated workflow over the simpler one that we all use.

Any thoughts please?

Well, precisely, the USB transfer was my initial issue. Most likely due to having both MP4 / AVCHD recordings on my camcorder's internal memory...? Now, with the USB transfer capability, I cannot argue why one MUST follow another workflow.

However, many of the comments under this post are quite persistent, claiming USB transfer to be the only way. Though, for me WiFi transfer / rewrapped MTS file seem to give the same result as USB transfer, and I for myself cannot see what the folder archive really does / is needed for. And also, with a camera set up with WiFi, one would expect WiFi transfers to be of equal quality to USB transfers.

Just being a rookie here, not trying to be a smartass as it might seem. Guess I will stick to the USB transfer if/when permitted.

I think the direct from card roue seems a lot simmpler whether via USB card reader or the built in card reader. - certainly that's then way I've always done it.

Your workflow seems to involve jumping through a couple of extra/unnecesary hoops but clearly it seems to work for you.

Have you tried the way most of us do it method and compared to be sure your workflow is better/simpler for you?

I'd be surprised if you did not find the recommended route better or, at the very least, faster.

But life is full of surprises!

Kjoglum

Did you try to DIRECTLY import video from the camera straight into Final Cut Pro?

I get the impression that you still don't understand what we mean by this, and in fact I'm confident that you've never done it.

You talk about 'USB transfer' yet I get the impression you mean: hooking the camera up by USB, mounting the camera on the Finder desktop, navigating inside the Camera directories, locating the .mts files from their folders in the camera, dragging them individually to the desktop, opening FCPX, and THEN importing the mts files from the mac desktop into Final Cut.

That's NOT what we are talking, and it's NOT what we are suggesting you do.

When we say directly import into FCPX via USB, we mean this:

Connect the camera with USB and turn it on

Open FCPX

Make a new event

Click the Import Media icon to the right of the events list, or go cmd-I

In the dialog that appears, select your camera as the source

Wait a bit for the thumbnails to appear of the videos that are in the camera

Select the videos you want and import all the selected videos in one go

Note that with this approach you never see, navigate or enter the actual folder heirachy at all; FCPX does all that for you. In fact you don't even know that such a folder structure exists.

This approach is MUCH simpler and faster, no clipwrapping is needed, no manually dragging files etc etc. Just plug the camera in, go import, select what you want, and it's imported.

What we want to know is: have you actually tried to do this?

c

ctzsnooze wrote:

… dialog that appears, select your camera as the source

Wait a bit for the thumbnails to appear of the videos that are in the camera…

exactly that doesn't work, when aside an intact AVCHD-structure the camera stores 'other' formats, such as kjoglum mentions mpeg4, on top-level of media (card, internal, …) .

only AVCHD: straight from media, usb, card-reader, slot in Mac, whatever. easy.

mixed format: manual import + manual re-wrapping needed. complicated.

( because, this monster thread gets longer & longer: advice reflects vers FCPX.08 )

Ahhh

Thanks Karsten for explaining why he can't do the direct import with a mix of video media on the card.

Now I understand - he just needs to shoot AVCHD only video and it will be easy.

Does this happen with *all* video devices? If so, Apple needs to get feedback reports.

Chris.

Yes. And right in the camera manual for this Panasonic camera it says the two formats are not compatible. It appears at least twice. No further explanation is given, but the recommendation has always been not to put them on the same medium, either card or hard drive. Obviously with cards it's easier, you just swap them out. But the formats are different and really should not both be used. Frankly I don't see any point of using anything other than AVCHD with this camera.

ctzsnooze wrote:

… Does this happen with *all* video devices? If so, Apple needs to get feedback reports.

Yes. No.

'destructing' an intact AVCHD-structure by adding 'other' files is against standards.

HIstory lesson:

AVCHD v1 had, by standards, some limitations, e.g. 24mbps, no 1080/60p, no 5.1, .... so, manufacturers like JVC ignored these standards (the px1 shoot in 38mbps).

Or used a different 'wrapper', mp4.

inside mts or mp4 are the same h.264. mp4 allows 'any' codecs, settings, combos.

… hard to find a convenient solution for any gumbo

And Apple is about convenience.

Another reason for mp4 was usage of an all-i codec - which is good for under-powered PC, which groan under the heavy load of live-de/encoding h.264.

... not so Macs/FCPX, delegating this task to the graphic card (which is 'good' in encoding).

Summary:

Follow Tom's advice (best practice anyhow) ...

use one format per media

consider, why you want mp4 to use (no use, except cameras using codec-settings beyond AVCHD v2, e.g. Panas GH3)

😁

Kjoglum

Did you try to DIRECTLY import video from the camera straight into Final Cut Pro?

I get the impression that you still don't understand what we mean by this, and in fact I'm confident that you've never done it.

Although being a rookie, I'm not a complete imbecile.

As mentioned under (7) in my "testing" post further above, I connected the camera to iMac using USB cable, and checked out both the mounted image (just to see content as compared to WiFi transfer directly to my iMac HD) as well as importing media from camera using FCP (into FCP event). So yes, by USB transfer I meant import via FCP.

And as Mr Sclüter points out, the USB to FCP import is likely the best option if having only AVCHD recordings, but not if having MP4 recordings. The potential of MP4 recordings / WiFi transfer on my camera I guess would be direct upload to Youtube, Facebook etc (via camera software installed).

Also, I see reference to Panasonic camera manual, but I'm in fact using a Canon Legria HF M52.

Count on Canon to leave out the important details.