How does the Media library get its listings?

The library changes depending on what you have selected in the inspector. Channel strip settings include not only the instrument but FX plugins. Notice the white outline of the selection in the inspector. If you select the instrument itself you will get those in the library, but if you select the channel strip setting (top slot) the name may be descriptive of the whole package (inst. + FX).

I find the Boesendorfer piano in surround>surround orchestral>surround pianos.

Anyway, in the finder go to HD>Library>application support>logic>channel strip settings>instrument> (you take it from there).

See how the white box is around the top settings button? My library shows the relevant info. If I click once on the EFM then the library changes to show settings for that instrument only.

You shouldn't need to select "no plug in."

1) I found fragmented explanations in the manual in chapter 3>media>getting to know the lib., and in also in chapter 10. This would be a hard one to look up unless you knew what you were looking for.

2) That's a spotlight thing, which I don't use. People have posted the where/why spotlight doesn't look for things, but I've never paid attention.

Logics concpet can be a little bit confusing. If you think of a (one) Sound with its (one) setting, Logic differentiates three different Levels. Once you understand that concept, it becomes very easy to stay on top of it.

Basic Concept

Level 1: The Instrument Patch

Think of it as a good old hardware synthesizer with a few knobs. You tweak them until you have created the perfect sound. Now you store that sound internally on your synth and name it "PatchName". Every time yo go back to your synth, you can recall that patch "PatchName" and there it is.

Level 2: Instrument Patch + Edits

If you recalled the patch "PatchName" and turn some of the knobs, the sound will change and it will be different from the original "PatchName" sound. You could save the modified sound again internally and give it a new name or you take a camera and take a picture that shows at what position the knobs are. You name the Picture "PatchName+Edit". Now every time you load the original patch "PatchName" and change the knob position the way you see it on the picture, you will get the same result.

Level 3: Instrument Patch + Edit + Studio Hookup

After you tried the Level 2 recreation you realized that it sounded different than the day before and you realize that yesterday you ran the synth through a distortion stomp box and some reverb unit. So in order to completely recreate the sound you have to recreate the "signal flow", too so you take your camera and take a picture of how you plugged in your synth with all the extras in between. Now you label that picture PatchName+Edit+Studio".

Logic terminology

If you have these 3 Level in mind then you have to just look how it translates into Logic terminology:

Level 1: The Instrument Patch

Those patches for various plugin instruments are stored mostly "outside" of Logic, especially with third party apps. Each Plugin vendor uses their own system how and where to store those patches. In the case of EXS, the patch names (Sampler Instruments) are stored in two Logic directories (in the root and user directory). The little plus sing or the popup menu on the EXS window refers to this Level 1, those are the patch names or "Sampler Instruments"

Level 2: PlugIn Settings

This the the "picture" that Logic takes and stores as a "Plug-In Setting" (extension .pst) with all the current settings of the Plugin. Those setting can be exactly the Patch name if you haven't changed anything, or it could be based on a patch that you modified or even something that is not based on any patch, that you created from scratch.

Level 3: Channel Strip Setting:

This is the "picture" that Logic takes and stores as "Channel Strip Settings (extension .cst). with the complete settings for the plugin and all the additional settings on its Channel Strip.

FIle Locations:

Level 1: The Instrument Patch

As I mentioned the location for the plugin patches vary with different plugin. The EXS requires the following location:

Factory Patches:

/Library/Application Support/Logic/Sampler Instruments/

User Patches

"username"/Library/Application Support/Logic/Sampler Instruments/

Level 2: PlugIn Settings (pst)

Logic throws you a curveball here. If you haven't been aware of (now is the time), Logic uses two kinds of plugins, the AU plugins mostly from external vendors and its "internal" Logic plugins which are technically not AU plugins! So both types have their own location and their own extension

Factory Plugin Settings - AU (.auprest)

/Library/Audio/Presets/

Factory Plugin Setting - Logic internal (pst)

/Library/Application Support/Logic/Plug-In Settings/

User Plugin Settings - AU (.auprest)

"username"/Library/Audio/Presets/

User Plugin Setting - Logic internal (pst)

"username"/Library/Application Support/Logic/Plug-In Settings/

Level 3: Channel strip Settings (cst)

The Channel Strip Settings have also a specialty that each channel strip type (Audio, Software Instrument, Aux) have their own sub folder:

Factory Channel Strip Settings:

/Library/Application Support/Logic/Channel Strip Settings/"channel strip type"/

User Channel Strip Settings

"username"/Library/Application Support/Logic/Channel Strip Settings/"channel strip type"/

Logic GUI:

The last step is to understand how Logic presents those three Levels to you. The most important thing to understand it that the "Library" window displays Plugin Settings and Channel Strip Settings depending on what is selected in the Channel Strip. Also notice that the Library window displays the combined content of root directory and user directory location for that file type.

Level 1: The Instrument Patch

The patch name selection is usually part of the plugin GUI and is pretty much different with every plugin

Level 2: PlugIn Settings

You have to select (click) on the Software Instrument button (input selector) in the Channel Strip so the Library window displays the Plug-In Settings. The button has now a little white border around it. The Plugin WIndow header also has a popup menu to manage the Plugin Settings (Load Settings, Save Settings, etc)

Level 3: Channel Strip Setting:

You have to select (click) on the Channel Strip Settings button (top of the Channel Strip) in the Channel Strip so the Library window displays the Channel Strip Settings. The button has now a little white border around it. The Channel Strip Button functions also as a popup menu (right click) to manage the Channel Strip Settings (Save Channel Strip Settings, etc)

OK, that should give you enough to chew on. With that background info it should also be also easier to understand the manual.

Edgar Rothermich

free Logic Manuals (www.DingDingMusic.com/Manuals)

You are almost there, but there seems to be still some confusion. The reason could be that I left out a few information/exception. I just wanted to introduce the basic concept of the three Levels first. Let me lay them out to you again with the exceptions. Actually I would rather call them extensions because add to the understanding of the basic concept.

Level 1: Instrument Patch

You have to stick to this basic idea of hardware synth that store its sound as Patches. This is where it started and that is what Logic and other DAW replicate in the digital domain. There are two things to add:

1a) There are regular synth based instrument and there are sampler based instruments. Synth based instruments use a specific electronics or algorithm to "calculate" or "synthesize" the sound based on electronic waveforms. The actual patch is just a calculation stored as a small file or data set. (ES1, ES2). Sample based Instruments on the other hand use audio files (samples) as their sound source. Those Instruments need to save the actual Patch (the calculation) AND the sample(s) that the patch is using. EXS24 and Ultrabeat are examples. That's why you are seeing aif (or wav) files in that context. Those files belong technically to the Instrument Patch although they are stored in a different directory (If you want you can label them "Level 0")

1b) Most 3rd-party Plugins have a way to save and load Patches outside Logic. Their GUI provides that feature with accessing the standard file selector box and everything. The reason is that those plugins cannot rely on Logics build in capabilities. Other DAW might not have that feature or the plugin even must work as a stand alone version. Logic's Instrument plugins however don't need that feature (Level 1) because they exist only in the Logic eco system. Therefor there is no Level 1 in ES1, ES2, etc). The exception here is EXS. That specific Logic Software Instrument lets you open and save patches (Sampler Instruments) from inside the plugin (or its own EXS Editor). Ultrabeat opens and stores samples, but as I pointed out above, those are not considered patches.

Level 2: Plug-In Settings

Two things are very important here and I want to point them out specifically.

2a) If you think about it, Level 1 and Level 2 are kind of the same, you are storing an Instrument Patch, the parameters that describe the Patch. The main difference is that in Level 1 the patches are stored "outside" and in Level 2 the patches are stored "inside" Logic.

2b) In Logic a Software Instrument plugin and an FX plugin (Inserts) are treated the same! Look at the plugin header, it is the same for both. And if you look at the directory where Logic stores the pst files, there is a subfolder for each plugin and they are all stored on the same level. The "Fat EQ" folder next to the "EXS24" folder. (If you really go hardcore under the Logic hood then you see that on a Software Instrument Channel Strip the actual Software Instrument is "Insert 1" and the first Insert Plugin is "Insert 2" and so on)

Level 3 Channel Strip Settings

No additional information here. This level stores all the parameters/settings of the whole channel strip.

keystrike wrote:

Furst, there are two types of plugins: The "inserts" and the "instrument plugin" (such as EVPOC20 polysynth or EXS24). However, EXS24 and Ultrabeat seem priviledged.

You might answer this question now yourself. NO, they are the SAME type, inserts" and 'instruments plugins" are the same type in Logic. However, keep in mind that there ARE two types of plugins. The Logic plugins (build-in) and the AU plugins (3rd party)

keystrike wrote:

Level 3: Click on the "settings" button at the top of the inspector. This uses everything in the channel strip. These are .cst files. Presumably, I could use the drop down menu to save my own version with whatever instrument I use and whichever inserts I use with that instrument. These inserts would not have to exist as .pst files, but they could.

Yes, you are right this saves the channel strip as it is as a "Channel Strip Setting". (One of Logic's underrated powerful features). You also have to understand that when you load a cst file, it recalls all the parameters of all the plugins that were used on that channel strip. It does NOT look what Plugin setting has been used and try to open that plugin setting. It just displays the name of the plugin settings that has been recalled earlier before the channel strip was saved. This might be a little bit tricky to understand first but think about the analogy of the snapshot picture. You don't take a picture that shows a picture of part of the scene, you just take a big picture that shows the whole scene.

keystrike wrote:

So a .pst file could become one part of a .cst file (metaphorically speaking), but not the reverse. A .exs file could become part of a .cst file, but not part of a .pst file.

I think you mean it in the right way, I just would not explain it that way because it could be misleading. How about that:

The PARAMETERS that make up the settings for an exs file are also included in a pst file

The PARAMETERS that make up the settings for a pst file are also included in the CST file

keystrike wrote:

How did you learn all this? Is there a book or manual somewhere?

I tried to read as many Logic books and watch as many Logic tutorials as I can to supplement the poorly written (incomplete) Logic manual. In general, when I learn a new device I make my own notes and try to understand the underlying concept by drawing up diagrams that graphically represent the model. It is much better to understand (or remember) a concept through a digram than digesting three pages of text. In the case of Logic, when I switched from Cubase six years ago I did the same, but then invested a little bit more time, polished them up and made those "Personal Manuals" available on my website for other Logic users who go through the same trouble of understanding our beloved application.

Edgar Rothermich

free Logic Manuals (www.DingDingMusic.com/Manuals)

Hi Keystike

I am sure that I am dummy 101 - but I still cannot figure out of the library gets it listings or rather .... how to get a patch listed in the library, under the appropriate category.

For example - I want to open up the ES2, create a new patch called Keystrike Cool Base, save it as a new patch. When I open up my Library Browser when doing a new project I want to go to the Library Browser and under 03 Base category ... have the Keystrike Cool Base ... showing as a bass patch along with all the rest.

Please can you give a 101 step guide if you can on how to do this.

Rgds

Mark

Thanks Keystrike.

I did have a thread and I managed to figure out how to take and ES2 Sound, and List then in the Library under the ES2 Sounds. I could get the sounds into the relevant ES2 Categories - which was a big help. These sounds end with pst (Patch)

When I read your thread - I realised that the Library might be getting its thread from the - CHANNEL STRIP SETTINGS / INSTRUMENTS/ and when I went to this location it appears that the sounds are in deed there!! The only issue is that these end with an (cst). So really what i am trying to figure out is how to create and save cst (patch plus channel strip settings) with the ES2 or anyt of the instrumnets - and save them.

I will start a new thread.

Rgds

Mark

Guys, you have to make sure to fully understand the difference of the three different levels "Patch - PlugIngSettings - ChannelStripSettings". It also helps in the communication to use the established terms. "pst" doesn't stand for Patch Setting, it is a Plug-In Setting. Again make sure to understand the difference first.

Please read my prior explanation again.

I want to add a few notes about the creation and management of your Settings.

You can manage (create, delete, move, etc) your own settings on all the three Levels. This applies to the path directories I listed in the prior post

1) To save a Setting you have to use the appropriate FIle Selector Box from the popup menu

2) To open a Setting you use the Library window (for Plugin Setting and Channel Strip Settings) or the Instruments/Patch selector menu on the Plugin GUI.

3) To create or manage your hierarchy with subfolders, you have to keep a few things in mind

• The File Selector Box lets you only save settings into folders/subfolders that exist already
• You have to create new subfolders in the Finder first (!). This is the place where you create and manage your files.
• You can freely move files around in the Finder to organize your files (on all three levels: EXS Sampler Instruments, Plugin Settings, Channel Strip Settings)
• Changing file locations in the Finder will be updated the next time you launch Logic or you click the "Refresh Library" command at the bottom of the Media Library or in the EXS popup menu.
• Although you could change the file structure in the root directory, you should stick to the user directory.
• The Library displays the files and folders in alphabetical order so you can use special characters to "force" a specific custom order (Ω to list at the bottom, numbers and special characters to move to the top, etc)
• An empty folder will not be displayed in the Library, it has to have at least one valid settings file in its path.

With all that basic understanding you have a very powerful tool at you hand. The biggest advantage is the "transparency". You are in charge what and how the settings are displayed in the Library. Not like other settings that are stored in some obscure database preference settings (Loop flags) that get lost when you have have to trash a corrupted file.

You can create a hiararchy of Genres (Bass, Drums, Synth) and create a subhierarchy (Soft Syth, Bright Synth, BPM Synth), or create a Folder structure of your projects where you save sounds that you use in specific projects or songs. It is much fast to quicky steps through all the sounds that you have used in Project XY from three month ago. And like I said, it is easy to manage that in the Finder. Whenever you come up with a new subfolder structor or want to change something, just move the files/folders around ... work in progress.

Another Example: you can create Channel Strip Settings as default launches for your (most used) Software Instruments. This way you don't have to use the Input selector popup menu anymore AND you can create the sort order or Plugin grouping yourself. Every time now you want to open an EXS instrument and you need two Aux sends and the EQ plugin, no problem, it can be part of the Channel Strip Settings and will be there right away with one click ...

Hi Edgar

Thanks for all the time and trouble to explain this too us. I am nearly there - lot to digest. I need to ask one more thing which is an illustartion .. please could you give me the steps for the following action:

1) I want to open up the libraby and select/ Acoustic Pianos/ Bosendorfer Paino Club/ ....[Done]

2) In the Channel Strip/Channel EQ and Space Dseigner/ In the third slot I select Distortion. Bit crucsher ...[Done]

3) Now I want to save this as "Distorted Bosendorfer Club Paino ...[Not sure how to do this ... I cannot seem to find appropriate file selector box anywhere. at this point the EX24 is not showling on my screen]

4) I want to have the Distorted Bosendorfer Club Paino ... show in my Library under the existing Bosendorfer Club Piano ...in future, everytime that I open up a new project.

This example will bring it together for me. I appreciate your help.

Rgds

Mark

Hi Edgar

Resolved ... finally clicked after re-reading all your instructions this evening. I managed to find the drop box (off the top file selector surrounded by the white boarder). Made the changes to the Bosendorfer, saved it, I now have it listed in my Library as "Distorted Bosendorfer Club Piano" (available on all my projects). Great - this is exactely what I needed.

Do you know what will happen when I do an update? Will it erase all of created channel strip settings?

Rgds