Panasonic HDC-TM900 60p & 5.1 Questions

Hello,


For the past year, I've been shooting with Panasonic's TM700 in 60p / 5.1, editing with PremierePro and I've hated every moment because up to then...I had edited in FCE or FCP (since 2004) and think Premiere's UI and workflow is a bit crap.


I recently purchased FCPX after reading it "edits native AVCHD" and the TM900 was listed as a "compatible" camera. I bought a TM900 last month. I may have made a mistake. If I want to shoot in 60i and in stereo, then FCPX will import "natively". If I go to 60p, it doesn't recognize the format. Fine, I'll use Clipwrap. When I re-wrap OR transcode with Clipwrap, FCPX doesn't read the AC-3 5.1 track and there is no audio during preview or in a timeline (even though the re-wrapped file plays fine with QuiktimeX and shows it's a 5.1 track). If I record 60i / 5.1, FCPX downmixes to stereo. This is hardly "native" in my opinion.


Honestly, I can live without the 60p. I would prefer not to since it truly does look "better" when my 2 year old is running around and there is a lot motion in my clips, but the 5.1 is sort of a deal breaker for me.


Here is a link to an original 60i / 5.1 file and FCPX's ingest file: files.me.com/gcarbon/r1c751


Can anyone shed some lite on this for me? I'm sure it could be summed up with "FCPX doesn't do AC-3 5.1" if that were the case. If 60p or 60i is possible with 5.1, please point out my error.


I'm willing to accept I made a $300 mistake, but before I ask Apple for my money back...I'd like to ask the community if they can help. I am truly deperate to use FCPX, but not willing to compromise what I want in order to do so.


Thanks in advance for any help!

MacPro 2.8 Octo, 10gb ram, 2TB RAID O scratch, Mac OS X (10.6.5), a whole lot of persitance!

Posted on Jun 27, 2011 2:35 AM

Reply
12 replies

Jul 9, 2011 12:02 PM in response to Gene Carbonell

I'm a newbie with FCP X and on this board... Don't have a video camera as yet as I've been having lots of fun with iMovie11 and my DSLR! I've learned a lot on this board about what to look for in a camera (I thought!) and was really getting excited about the TM900...until I read the discussion above! Bummer!


Are you guys saying I have to do some sort of pre-conversion before I can get TM900 video into FCP-X? Aside from the bother of doing this, what do I loose? Is this something that Apple might correct in the near term for this seemingly VERY popular camera?


Is it only p60 footage that FCPX can't handle? What other formats from the TMC900 will FCP-X handle?


Thanks!

Jul 10, 2011 10:01 AM in response to Ray Thompson2

Ray,


"Are you guys saying I have to do some sort of pre-conversion before I can get TM900 video into FCP-X? Aside from the bother of doing this, what do I loose? Is this something that Apple might correct in the near term for this seemingly VERY popular camera?"


I can't speak to this. Only Apple knows. I imagine so.


"Is it only p60 footage that FCPX can't handle? What other formats from the TMC900 will FCP-X handle?"


If you plan to shot ANYTHING other than 60i / 2 channel on the TM900, then you'll need to convert via all the methods discussed in this or other threads. Have a look at the one I'm more involved in.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3131540?answerId=15589899022#15589899022


Personally, the 60i image quality is really poor compared to the 60p. At the end of the day, you'll have to figure out what your end output device is going to be. For me, I use AppleTV 2, an HTPC and Mac's. If I want to view my stuff on the AppleTV2...I know I have limitations to frame size and rate. To me, there is a significant quality reduction this way. If I play my exports on my HTPC or Mac.....an H.264 1080p60 w/ 5.1 AAC looks the best and plays extremely well. It's worth all the crap I have to go through to retain this quality.


Gene

Jul 10, 2011 3:23 PM in response to Gene Carbonell

Gene and everyone, I'm gleaning a LOT out of this thread but still struggling with some of the terms that are new to me: HTPC? AppleTV2: I guess you mean the new AppleTV, which I have but haven't used much. 2 Channel = Stereo? w/5.1 AAC? [CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN EACH OF THESE GENE?]


What I THINK I understand:

- I can shoot 1080i and edit directly in FCPX

- 1080p is better in a number of ways but as of now I will have to "convert" before editing in FCPX


What I THINK would be my output medium from FCPX: Mostly to my 27'Mac screen, Vimeo, DVD's and to project at our church from my Mac.


So, how would using 1080i impact my use of these mediums? (I probably would not be as critical on "image quality" as some of you more experienced guys are... and I'm reading the other thread you referenced, Gene. Thanks!)


I must say, the more I read about the TM900 the more I think it is my camera, and maybe Apple will eventually fix FCPX to handle 1080p?


Thanks!

Jul 10, 2011 4:38 PM in response to Ray Thompson2

Hi Ray,


Regarding your previous questions:


HTPC = Home Theater PC (it's my Blu-ray player / Media Server)

AppleTV2 = 2nd Gen AppleTV

2 Channel = Stereo

5.1 AAC = 5.1 in Advance Audio Codec (the output format my 1080p60 audio gets exported to. it's only compatible w/ my HTPC or ATV2 if I bring the frame size & rate down to 720p30 or lower.


"What I THINK I understand:

- I can shoot 1080i and edit directly in FCPX

- 1080p is better in a number of ways but as of now I will have to "convert" before editing in FCPX"


Yes! But "converting" isn't all that bad. And you only have to convert if you shot 60i in 5.1, or 60p in stereo or 60p in 5.1.



What I THINK would be my output medium from FCPX: Mostly to my 27'Mac screen, Vimeo, DVD's and to project at our church from my Mac.

All this can be support even if you shoot in 60p. It's just a matter of how you convert the files.



So, how would using 1080i impact my use of these mediums? (I probably would not be as critical on "image quality" as some of you more experienced guys are... and I'm reading the other thread you referenced, Gene. Thanks!)

I truly hope you are as critical as we are if you're going to spend $1k or more on a camera. If you have the patience, you should rent/buy and return as many camera's as you can to discover the right one for you. That's what I'm going with Canon's HFG10.


maybe Apple will eventually fix FCPX to handle 1080p?

FCPX does in fact edit 60p if you're willing to put a little more leg work into the workflow. Once I convert my stuff to ProRes or Proxy, FCPX handles it like a breeze. I've outline the workflow I use with great success on my 2 computers. I can't speak to computer specs that are any less than what my post listed.



I trust this helps,

Gene

Aug 5, 2011 6:28 PM in response to Gene Carbonell

The problem with ClipWrap is that it doesn't preserve the original timestamps. So they don't appear right in the event view.


Right now, I'm using ffmpeg to wrap the MTS clip into a compatible M4V file, while transcoding the 5.1 AC3 to 5.1 AAC with the same bitrate. The trouble with LPCM is that it eats up a lot of additional space, while the AAC encoding is smaller than the AC3. The good thing is that it works fine with 1080 60p video and surround sound audio in FCP X.


I would still like FCP X to be fixed to recognize AC3 properly, but at least I can do some editing now with my TM900 footage.

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Panasonic HDC-TM900 60p & 5.1 Questions

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