Previous 1 7 8 9 10 11 Next 188 Replies Latest reply: Apr 12, 2015 10:07 AM by KLicheR Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • Casemon Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I for one got tired of waiting for >2-bay Thunderbolt JBOD enclosures to arrive, so recently purchased this:

     

    Sans Digital TowerRAID TR5UT+B - 5 Bay USB 3.0/eSATA Hardware RAID 5 Tower with 6G PCIe 2.0 HBA (Black)

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004WNLPH8/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

     

    Via USB3, have found that round-trip performance is not great, but it is still wicked fast, and most importantly it gets the job done TODAY.

     

    And with that, Thunderbolt is pretty much dead to me. Too bad.

  • gen_ Level 2 Level 2 (340 points)

    I know what I would do. I would buy this: http://gizmosforlife.net/Seagate-Retail-GoFlex-Thunderbolt-Adapter-STAE121/M/B00 6P1QWOQ.htm becasue I know it takes a SATA2 in and outputs a TB port, and doesnt need to be disassembled to access the sata port on it (I own a GoFlex that it's built for so I know how the socket should look). Then I would buy a eSATA Hardware Raid0 array and use a standard SATA cable or a SATA to ESATA adapter. You probably already have an eSATA array anyway.

     

    Let me know if you decide to do it and how it goes. For $100 that is a very attractive option and providing your SATA array uses external power and hardware RAID it should work, wityh software RAID it should too but you never know if you're using eSATA on Mac as I've never tried it.#

     

    It won't be especially pretty, but it should be reliable and scaleable and do the job nicely.

  • trifero Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Since i read This article, i lost interest on Thunderbolt. .... Sorry it is written in Spanish.

     

    http://www.xataka.com/analisis/lacie-rugged-usb-3-0-thunderbolt-series-lo-hemos- probado

     

     

     

    At the end i,m using and SSD with this adapter and it runs fast.

     

    http://www.ebay.es/itm/USB-3-0-to-Micro-SATA-16Pin-1-8-SSD-Convert-Cable-50cm-/1 50638961543?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item2312c82387#ht_1698wt_1081

  • sbywalt Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Casemon, I would do this too if I could.  It looks like an excellent solution for Mac Pro users.  Unfortunately, it is not available to me because my iMac is a "pre-USB 3.0" iMac.

  • sbywalt Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    gen, thanks!  Now THIS looks like a real possibility for me!  By the way, for some reason, when I clicked on your link, it brought me only to the "comments" section of the website, so I cannot see the actual product.  Can you send a link to the we page that shows the product, or alternatively, send a reply that has the name of the product?  And, yes, I still own my eSATA RAID level 0 array, so, if the product to which you refer will allow me to connect my eSATA array to a Thunderbolt port on my iMac, this will be the product for me.  Thanks again.

  • TinMass Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    me too

  • gen_ Level 2 Level 2 (340 points)

    Sorry, it looks like the took the picture down only moments after I linked it. I'm not from the US so it's not as easy for me to find things at your prices but the earlier link was $97. Annoying really becasue in the UK its £99 (big difference). It's basically this item though: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/storage/3364676/seagate-goflex-adapter-thunde rbolt-review/

     

    On the HDD end it has a laptop-like joint SATA/Power socket with the SATA and SATA Power joined together and two plastic sticky-out keys on either side to stop you inserting other hard drives (It's built for the Seagate GoFlex but is essentially generic becasue it makes a direct connection to the raw HDD). They look like the ones you can see at the bottom of this item http://www.soarland.com/Female_SATA_To_Male_SATA_Extender-product-247.html

     

    The good thing is (and I've done this with the firewire ones) it's really easy to just snap off the keys with a flat-headed screwdriver and use any hard drive on it. If you really don't want to or are worried about looks or damage you could presumably buy the adapter linked above and use it to extend your connections into ones without blocks at each end with little overhead (by breaking the blocks on the cheap adapter instead, the blocks are to stop you inserting 3.5" drives with high power draw but you will be using external power). In your case I would then use a hardware RAID card to connect multiple hard drives or even use a powered eSATA array enclosure but just using a simple SATA plug.

     

    The third option is the Seagate GoFlex Desk TB adapter. This is about twice the price but is externally powered and comes with a daisy chain TB connector. It's interesting to note what they say on that review above too about the device being so big becasue Thunderbolt needs several chips just to translate to SATA.

  • gen_ Level 2 Level 2 (340 points)

    Sorry, to clarify, the third option is there because it would mean you wouldn't have to get rid of any blocks on the SATA socket, and you would still have another Thunderbolt port. I largely suspect the low price of the adapters here is becasue of Seagate (and thus Samsung who own the HDD division) have a much bigger economy of scale than anyone else and want to subsidize thier own product to keep the advantage they have.

  • sbywalt Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks gen.  This is getting very, very close to what I would be willing to spend.  The last few issues that I need to address are:  (1) what is the price in US dollars (my converter says about $160 US); and (2) will my SATA array need any additional adapters, or can I simply spend around $160 and be able to hook up my SATA RAID level 0 array and have a high-speed volume, ready-to-go?

     

    P.S.

     

    $160 is better than $200, but not as nice as $60 (but I do not really expect $60 because that would be an unfair comparison ... maybe $100 to $150 would be more realistic).  It is not like the extra $100 would be a "make a break" point.  It is more like it is a matter of curiosity.

     

    I know that there are aspects of Thunderbolt that would, necessarily, cause the price of any enclosure to be more expensive, and I do not mind that.  It is just that:  "what is it, specifically, that causes this price differential?"

     

    Is it that the economies of scale have not yet kicked in, and until they do, Thunderbolt will be this much more expensive?

     

    Or, is it that there are technological reasons for the price differential, and that this differential will never be narrowed, no matter how long we wait?

     

    Or, is the answer something like "a little of both," or "something completely different," or "Walt, you are really, really, barking up the wrong tree."

  • Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (44,765 points)

    sbywalt wrote:

     

    snip

     

    I know that there are aspects of Thunderbolt that would, necessarily, cause the price of any enclosure to be more expensive, and I do not mind that.  It is just that:  "what is it, specifically, that causes this price differential?"

     

    Is it that the economies of scale have not yet kicked in, and until they do, Thunderbolt will be this much more expensive?

     

    Or, is it that there are technological reasons for the price differential, and that this differential will never be narrowed, no matter how long we wait?

     

    Or, is the answer something like "a little of both," or "something completely different," or "Walt, you are really, really, barking up the wrong tree."

    I venture that it is a lot of the first, some of the second, and a dash of development and other costs, on the side.

  • gen_ Level 2 Level 2 (340 points)

    sbywalt wrote:

     

    Thanks gen.  This is getting very, very close to what I would be willing to spend.  The last few issues that I need to address are:  (1) what is the price in US dollars (my converter says about $160 US); and (2) will my SATA array need any additional adapters, or can I simply spend around $160 and be able to hook up my SATA RAID level 0 array and have a high-speed volume, ready-to-go?

     

    P.S.

     

    $160 is better than $200, but not as nice as $60 (but I do not really expect $60 because that would be an unfair comparison ... maybe $100 to $150 would be more realistic).  It is not like the extra $100 would be a "make a break" point.  It is more like it is a matter of curiosity.

     

    I know that there are aspects of Thunderbolt that would, necessarily, cause the price of any enclosure to be more expensive, and I do not mind that.  It is just that:  "what is it, specifically, that causes this price differential?"

     

    Is it that the economies of scale have not yet kicked in, and until they do, Thunderbolt will be this much more expensive?

     

    Or, is it that there are technological reasons for the price differential, and that this differential will never be narrowed, no matter how long we wait?

     

    Or, is the answer something like "a little of both," or "something completely different," or "Walt, you are really, really, barking up the wrong tree."

    Sorry for the lateness, its exam week in the UK

     

    A. It's less than $160. It was listed as $97 on the link I sent you. You have to remember that in the UK we have a 20% tax on everyinthg sold plus bigger import/export charges. Have a look and see what you can find.

    B. Your SATA array will need an eSATA to internal SATA data cable. These are pennies but I can imagine how annoying it would be to get everything together to find that that was missing.

     

     

    I will add that it's a lost cause waiting for 'economies of scale' and such and anyone that tells you that it's down to this is feeding you marketing bull. The real reason is lack of demand. Put it this way (the facts and figures are not going to be 100% but the point definitely is)

     

    For Seagate (or anyone else) create a SATA-TB adapter for a hard drive array you need 3 chips before your TB one. That TB one alone costs 4x the cost of a USB3 chip because Intel charges a very high licensing tax on the units (whereas USB3 just gets cloned by the chinese then the design gets distributed for basically free). Direct comparisons made on other sites suggest that TB is somewhere near 20$ a (non-daisy chaining) chip and USB3 is closer to the $5 mark. Add to that the fact that USB3 is backward compatible so you can sell your device to 100% of the market, that USB2 devices need next to no redesigning (you can actually just directly replace the chip, it will only give you USB2 speeds but that means you factory can be building only one type of chip (rather than USB2+3) lowering costs)  and then furthur add that maybe 1% of the devices made will ever need more speed than a single USB3 will provide and you cans ee that the market for TB is very ,very small.

     

    There's no economy of scale for such a small market, and with Intel's tax, it will probably die well before we ever need its power. now if Intel were to stop charging such a high license royalty then things might be differnt, but until then the future of TB is bleak.

  • verdi1987 Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Since QNAP didn't announce the JTB-400 at either CES or Macworld this year (and there is no reference to it on their website), I take it this product will never see the light of day.

  • sbywalt Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    gen_

     

    Thanks for your reply.  This pretty much explains the entire conundrum to me.  It pretty much looks like the combination of: (1) the Intel licencing fee; and (2) the appearance of USB 3, will kill off any possible chance for Thunderbolt enclosure pricing in the $60 range that I was used to paying for external eSATA enclosures.

     

    Because Mac Pros became so expensive relative to iMacs, and because iMacs became so much faster, I finally moved from buying tower-style Macs (Mac 9500, Mac G4, and Mac G5), and instead bought an iMac for the first time (thinking that I could eventually buy an inexpensive Thunderbolt enclosure, or at least some means of connecting my eSATA RAID Level 0 volume to my iMac).

     

    Those who buy current iMacs have a perfect external solution by simply using USB 3.  However, the particular generation of iMacs that I own do not have USB 3 connections (only Thunderbolt, Firewire 800, and USB 2.0).  So, I am stuck with either settling for a relatively slow Firewire 800 external volume, or still trying to avoid spending more on a Thunderbolt RAID level 0 volume than my entire iMac originally cost.

     

    So, it seems to me that the lesser of the evils is to buy the Thunderbolt hub that LaCie sells for $200.  Therefore, it looks like we will all need to get used to the idea that, what used to cost $60 (an eSATA enclosure) will now cost us $200 (a Thunderbolt hub) plus the cost of an external enclosure.

     

    I guess that I will just have to accept the fact that I will need to spend $200 in order to connect my RAID level 0 volume to my iMac.  And, for my $200 I will gain the benefit of extra speed that I really do not need.  And also, this extra speed is speed that that my eSATA RAID level 0 volume (composed of 7,200 RPM hard drives) cannot really take advantage of.

     

    Am I right, or am I missing an alternative, less expensive, solution for connecting my RAID level 0 volume to my iMac that lacks a USB 3 connection (and whose only external connection options are Thunderbolt, Firewire 800, and USB 2.0)?

  • Phillip Lovgren Level 4 Level 4 (1,310 points)

    There is another solution from Other World Computing. It involves sending you iMac to them and they install a eSATA port on the bottom of the iMac. It shouldn't void the AppleCare warranty and there are a couple of options. This solution can give you 6Gb/s which is twice the data rate using the Lacie hub. The cost is $169 which includes return shipping only.

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