Time Capsule, External Firewire Drive & Time Machine - Couple Questions

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Time Capsule, External Firewire Drive & Time Machine - Couple Questions

First, thanks in advance for any answers and suggestions. They're much appreciated. Here is the scenario:

-- Just purchased a new 2 TB Time Capsule. (I also own an AE router which I previously configured to work as a bridge on my FIOS connection, so just did the same with the TC and that part works flawlessly. No problems.)

-- Also no problem getting Time Machine to locate the new TC and start doing it's thing - including a back up of about 500 GB worth of files from a Lacie Firewire 800 external drive, which is attached to my MacMini.

This is where I start having questions though.

1) Must the external drive remain on at all times now that I've included it as part of the Time Machine backup? Because if so, I'm afraid I didn't think that part through very well. I'm almost certain the answer is "yes" otherwise TM would remove the files from the backup every time it was off. Right?

2) If I remove the external drive from the TM backups and choose to copy the files to a separate folder on the TC, will that eventually lead to problems down the line with TM? I obviously don't want TM to start deleting the external drive copies so it can use more space.

3) If I decide to keep the external hard drive connected and remaining on at all times, will it be allowed to spin down and rest? Or is it going to keep spinning constantly, as seemed to be the case when I had it set up to be the primary TM disk? One of the reasons I opted for a TC was because I had tired of having the Lacie spin down, only to start up again five minutes later for God knows what, even when I wasn't accessing it.

Posted on Jun 28, 2011 11:22 AM

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Answer 1

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Matt Clifton

Level 7

29,975 points

Jun 28, 2011 12:04 PM in response to Sangs

Hi Sangs

1) No, you can eject any and all external drives at any time, and TM will just resume that drive's backup the next time you connect it.

2) No, you'll just have that much less space for backups on the Time Capsule. TM backups won't overwrite anything that's not in the Backups folder.

3) It depends somewhat on the drive, but usually you can set those preferences in Energy Saver (Put hard disks to sleep when possible).

Matt

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Answer 2

Sangs Author

Level 1

25 points

Jun 28, 2011 12:48 PM in response to Matt Clifton

Thanks Matt.

1) TM is currently backing up about 800 GB - including the external drive. So you're saying when it's done I can eject, turn off the drive and the next time TM does a back up, it won't erase the external drive files if the drive isn't connected? My confusion stems from the fact that I thought TM only recorded changes every time it did the incremental backups. And if the external drive and its files weren't present, wouldn't that be a "change?"

2) Very good to know.

3) I've tried every which way to Sunday to keep that drive from spinning up and down repeatedly in the Energy Saver preferences. Failed every time. Like clockwork it would spin for five minutes, shut down for five minutes, then restart the whole thing all over again. Even when TM wasn't doing anything. I don't understand it. Hoping that since removing it as the TM source, it'll start behaving normally.

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Answer 3

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Jun 28, 2011 4:15 PM in response to Sangs

Sangs wrote:

. . .

2) If I remove the external drive from the TM backups and choose to copy the files to a separate folder on the TC, will that eventually lead to problems down the line with TM? I obviously don't want TM to start deleting the external drive copies so it can use more space.

I'm not sure why you want to do that. As Matt says, Time Machine will just back up what's new or changed since the last backup. If it's not backed up for a while, and especially if there were a lot of changes in the meantime, the next backup may be fairly lengthy.

Time Machine won't delete other files on the TC's internal HD, but mixing backups and other files there will, eventually, cause conflicts. See #Q3 in Using Time Machine with a Time Capsule for details and some possible workarounds.

3) I've tried every which way to Sunday to keep that drive from spinning up and down repeatedly in the Energy Saver preferences. Failed every time. Like clockwork it would spin for five minutes, shut down for five minutes, then restart the whole thing all over again. Even when TM wasn't doing anything. I don't understand it. Hoping that since removing it as the TM source, it'll start behaving normally.

Some drives respond to that setting, some don't. 😟 Most drives have their own sleep or "spin down" feature; check the info that came with yours or with the maker to see if you can adjust it. But note that anytime you use a Save dialog, OSX will spin it up to offer it as a possible destination.

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Answer 4

Sangs Author

Level 1

25 points

Jun 29, 2011 6:04 AM in response to Pondini

@Pondini - I'm betting the bloatware that originally came with the Lacie drive had some power management feature in there. Oh well, my fault for wiping it all out (which is common practice for me and external drives).

Should I assume that the TC will also spin up every time the "save" dialog is accessed? If so, I haven't really solved that nagging issue by opting for a TC have I?

As for my original question, you guys steered my in the right direction. I was mainly looking for a solution where I didn't need the external on at all times. Knowing that TM won't delete the external's files if it's not hooked up and powered on makes that decision easier. Guess the TC will be for TM backups only.

Honestly, in that regard though, TC seems a bit limited. I was hoping to partition it and use some for TM backups and the other for straight file copies of items I hadn't planned to include in TM. Wonder why Apple doesn't allow for it to be partitioned (easily) or used as a media server?

Thanks again.

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Answer 5

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Jun 29, 2011 7:06 AM in response to Sangs

Sangs wrote:

@Pondini - I'm betting the bloatware that originally came with the Lacie drive had some power management feature in there. Oh well, my fault for wiping it all out (which is common practice for me and external drives).

Not necessarily. See what LaCie has to say.

Should I assume that the TC will also spin up every time the "save" dialog is accessed? If so, I haven't really solved that nagging issue by opting for a TC have I?

Only if the sparse bundle or other items are already mounted.

Honestly, in that regard though, TC seems a bit limited. I was hoping to partition it and use some for TM backups and the other for straight file copies of items I hadn't planned to include in TM. Wonder why Apple doesn't allow for it to be partitioned (easily) or used as a media server?

It's a network drive, and Disk Utility (like most other disk repair apps) doesn't see network drives. They did "tweak" it, somehow, to see a mounted disk image, so you can repair your backups.

But there are some workarounds, per #Q3 in Using Time Machine with a Time Capsule. Easiest is to connect a USB drive, which you can partition (while connected to your Mac) if desired.

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Answer 6

Sangs Author

Level 1

25 points

Jun 29, 2011 8:54 AM in response to Pondini

Easiest is to connect a USB drive, which you can partition (while connected to your Mac) if desired.

Isn't that akin to keeping my Firewire drive connected to the MacMini though? I have it shared on our network as is - and the Mini is instructed to wake for network access - so it's accessible from anywhere when connected. Is there a benefit I'm missing by not connecting the drive (it has USB also) to the TC?

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Answer 7

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Jun 29, 2011 9:07 AM in response to Sangs

I didn't mean moving the current external, but attaching an additional one. In that case, the Mini wouldn't have to wake for access.

If you move the current drive to the TC, Time Machine can't back it up. That's also true if you put other data on the TC's HD, too: Time Machine cannot back it up. That could be done with a 3rd-party app.

The other workarounds to put other stuff on the TC's HD have downsides, too: the disk image is of a fixed size, and can't be accessed by two users at once. Setting a maximum size for the sparse bundle may not "hold." And, of course, the "other" stuff isn't easily backed-up.

All in all, it sounds like your best bet may be to put the "other" stuff on the FireWire (or additional) drive, attached directly to the Mini, and use the TC for backups only.

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Answer 8

Sangs Author

Level 1

25 points

Jun 30, 2011 4:20 AM in response to Pondini

Here's a new one (for me) Pondini. After having the entire external drive included in yesterday's all-day long TM backup, I went down this morning, checked it, did a quick "Backup Now" to make sure all was kosher and it was.

Yay.

However, then I updated individual folders on the external. Added some new photos, videos, music and documents from my Mini. Updated the names of the folders (example: "Vids - Updated 6-30-11") and I also changed the notes in the "Spotlight Comments" section of each folder AND the drive itself to indicate the last time the folders and entire drive were backed up. All in all, about 40 GB worth of new files.

I go back to TM preferences, hit "Backup Now" and the **** thing starts backing up all 600 GB again! Why?! I've never had that happen before when TM backed up only the Mini. Shouldn't it just note the changes that were made from yesterday's marathon backup? If I change a folder name or the spotlight comments, is TM always going to want to backup the entire drive?! That's insane if so.

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Answer 9

Pondini

Level 8

38,863 points

Jun 30, 2011 7:51 AM in response to Sangs

Sangs wrote:

. . .

Updated the names of the folders (example: "Vids - Updated 6-30-11")

Changing the name of a folder will cause that folder, and all it's contents, to be backed-up again. (That's true of most backup apps.)

I'm not sure about the Spotlight comments on a folder, but I'd not be at all surprised to see the same results.

Changing the name of a drive, however, shouldn't, by itself.

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