How do I customise the tick marks and/or grid lines on a chart?

Here is a chart (of the temperatures of various parts of a solar water heater system I am working on, since you ask 🙂). The data is sampled every 5 minutes.

User uploaded file

I have set the x-axis labels to one label for every 6 entries (every half an hour). As you can see, at present it is unclear where the label corresponds to on the chart. I would like to add some gridlines.


However, I can only get it to add a gridline for every single entry, not just every half hour as I would like. Which is just as useless as not having the gridlines in the first place.

User uploaded file

Adding major tickmarks has a similar effect - each label could correspond to any one of 6 different tickmarks.


Anyone know how/if I can do this?


Thanks very much,

Jo



EDIT: Oh, and I'm using Numbers '09 version 2.0.5 if that helps.


Message was edited by: Josephiah

MacBook, Mac OS X (10.6.7)

Posted on Jul 7, 2011 2:31 AM

Reply
10 replies

Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Thanks for your reply Yvan, but that's not quite what I'm after. I would like fewer gridlines, not more. In my axis options menu I only have one option: "Show gridlines", which inserts a gridline for every data entry.

User uploaded file

Is there any way of doing this on the line chart?


It looks like you are using a scatter chart, which does allow you to put the lines in more sensible places. However, the scatter chart has some serious issues of its own which stop this from being a good option:


1. I was having a lot of trouble getting it to include the right columns of data in the chart, with some of the columns I had selected simply not appearing in the chart. I eventually tracked this down to the fact that it doesn't like using data from the header column. Copying the exact same data to a non-header column made it work fine. Why on earth should that make a difference?


2. I can't format the line styles on the chart, only the symbol styles. With the 'Data Symbol' set to 'none' and 'Connect Point' set to 'straight', whatever I set the line style to, the lines remain resolutely 1-point solid lines of the default colour.


3. Now it won't let me label more than 10 points.


I'm used to Apple products being fairly intuitive, but the more I use Numbers, the more unintuitive, illogical and inconsistent I find it to be.


Jo

Jul 8, 2011 2:52 AM in response to Josephiah

We have no way to reduce the number of vertical lines.

We have none or all of them.


I wish to add that you may rotate the labels along the X axis to enhance legibility.

User uploaded file


Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 8 juillet 2011 11:52:11

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community


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Jul 8, 2011 11:02 AM in response to Josephiah

Josephiah wrote (in separate messages):


0. I can only get it to add a gridline for every single entry, not just every half hour as I would like.


1. I eventually tracked this down to the fact that it doesn't like using data from the header column. Copying the exact same data to a non-header column made it work fine. Why on earth should that make a difference?


2. I can't format the line styles on the chart, only the symbol styles. With the 'Data Symbol' set to 'none' and 'Connect Point' set to 'straight', whatever I set the line style to, the lines remain resolutely 1-point solid lines of the default colour.


3. Now it won't let me label more than 10 points.


0.

Add the gridlines and ticks 'manually' using a Line shape with an end mark. Here's an example, using the image of your chart posted above. In practice, you would deselect the 'show gridlines' option in the Chart Inspector after placing the lines.

User uploaded fileDownside: The gridlines are not attached to the chart. New ones will not be added automatically if further data points are added and the chart grows horizontally, nor will they move to maintain their position on the chart if the chart is resized.


1.

Header row and Header column cells are different from 'regular' cells in Numbers. Bar charts, column charts and other 'Category' charts use the contents of header cells to name each Series of values and to name each Category of data to be shown. If you select a Category chart, you'll see something like this on the Table feeding data to the chart:


User uploaded file


The blue outline (and blue shading) mark the Data series that is feeding the chary. The white lettering on black background areas mark the Category names (Header column at the left) and Series name (Header row above the series data).


A Scatter Chart has no Categories. Each axis is a Value axis. Selecting a Scatter Chart shows a different diagram imposed on the Table feeding data to the chart:

User uploaded file

Each point on the chart is determined by a Data Pair - an x value (shared in this case, and contained in column B) and a y value. Only the Header Row is used to provide labels for each series.


As a Value axis, the x axis in a Scatter chart has the same labeling and grid markers options as the y axis—you may specify up o 10 steps and choose to show the major grid lines (the grid line at each step) and from 0 to 10 minor gridlines, evenly spaced, between the major gridlines. By specifying a number of steps that would label only the hours, you could then show major gridlines plus 1 minor gridline to get a line at each half hour.


2.

Changing line colour and thickness is done in the inspector. The chart above uses none of the default line colours, several different data point markers and a connecting line thickness of 1 point. To change the line's thickness and colour, you must first select the line, not just the data point markers. Click on the line between two markers (if the markers are close together, you may find it useful/necessary to enlarge the view scale in order to select the line). When the line is selected, there will be small white circles between, as well as at, the data points.


Once selected, use the three Stroke controls in the Format bar to set the type of line (solid, dashed, dotted), thickness in points, and colour. The data point styles are set separately, in the Inspector.


3.

Category charts fit the labels automatically, and select as many as will fit from the list procided in the Header cells.

Value axes are limited to no more than 10 labels, set by the number of Steps chosen for that axis. Up to 10 equally spaced points between these 'major' axis points ma be marked with grid lines or tick marks, but not labeled.


Regards,

Barry

Jul 8, 2011 11:47 PM in response to Barry

Barry, thanks for your response. I understand all these things already - my post was really just checking to see if I was missing some obvious menu option or checkbox somewhere. Some of these restrictions really frustrate me though.


0. Are you serious?


1. In my header column is time stamp data, which Numbers quite correctly interprets as 'date & time' format. Since it is able to recognise the data type no problem in the table, it seems strange to me that is it unable to work out what to do with it depending on the type of chart I select.


2. Yes, you're quite right, and I know how the formatting works. But in my case there is no easy point where I can select the line between the data points, as I have a lot of them!* This is where a panel in the inspector, or a simple drop-down menu allowing me to select which series I want to deal with would be so useful. Every other spreadsheet program I've used has some equivalent.


EDIT: After reading a couple of other threads, including this one, I discovered that you can in fact select the series including the line as well as the data points by a) selecting the chart, b) selecting the relevant column in the table by clicking on the series marker at the head of the column. **Eats hat**


*(On a not entirely unrelated issue - I'm finding that Numbers really struggles with doing anything (particularly charts, but also simple table operations) with more than a few hundred data points, locking up for sometimes minutes at a time. I accept this may be a simple 'not enough memory' issue or similar, but Excel and OpenOffice both handle tens of thousands of entries with no trouble.)


3. But why this arbitrary limit of "no more than 10"? The fact that there is a restriction at all seems utterly nonsensical to me, and a classic case of the user being forced to serve the app instead of the other way round. What if I want to label, for instance, the 24 hours in a day? Or for that matter, just 12?


I just think it's a shame that in trying so hard to look pretty (which it does), Numbers loses so much useful functionality.


J

Jul 9, 2011 2:15 AM in response to Josephiah

Hi Jo,


0. Serious? Of course. You've asked for a way to show only 'some' gridlines. The software won't do it automatically. Here's one way you can do it. As implied/stated, it's not something I'd use on a dynamic chart, but it could prove useful once the data was finalized and the chart was stable.


1. I'd interpret it as a design choice to assign some specific properties to Header cells. Data goes in the body cells, category and series labels in the header cells. All of the charts except the scatter chart are category charts, and don't chart 'data' on the category axis.


2. I've had the same difficulty selecting the line in charts with large numbers of data points. As I recall, I stretched the chart horizontally and upped the view scale to produce some room to click the selection. I'm glad you did that search and found the (simpler) technique. I think I knew that, but hadn't had much need to use it. Must tuck it away for future use again.


* Yes. a bit of bad design, and I'm sure there is a large stack of feedback on this issue. Two contributing factors are the decision to recalculate every time any data changes, and Numbers's heavy use of virtual memory.


3. "Why" questions are outside the scope of this forum. From a design viewpoint, though, the restriction on number of divisions works well in avoiding clutter. If the chart is a picture showing the pattern of the data, clutter avoidance is a good choice. If it's to be a precise display of the data, the trade off for precision is a more crowded page.


No problem putting hourly markers for a 24 hour day onto a scatter chart. It's also possible to put labels for all 24 hours onto a line chart, but I can't say I like it all that much. scatter chart on top, Line chart from same data below.


In the end, though, it comes down to 'Does the software fill your needs?' If so, then use it; if not, Provide Feedback requesting changes, and/or use software that does fill your needs.


Regards,

Barry


PS: The feedback link is in the application menu (in numbers, the "Numbers" menu) of most current Apple software.

User uploaded file

Jul 9, 2011 6:36 AM in response to Barry

Hi Barry,


0. I'd meant "is there a way to get the software to do this?" Apologies if that wasn't clear.


1. Yep, you're probably right - still a little frustrating when one is trying to figure out its behaviour.


*. Makes sense - glad to know it's not just my computer! 🙂


3. Clutter depends on the size of the chart 😝. Your second figure brings me back round to my original problem. I have no problem achieving what you illustrate there: the issue is that I have various data points between the hourly ones, and Numbers wants to insert a gridline for every data point (on the line chart) - a cluttering issue of a different kind. I'll settle for a solution like your first figure, but grudgingly!


Apologies for the rant, but some of the design decisions seem so absurd to me, particularly the 'limiting to 10 labels' one, when it would have been no more difficult to implement a higher limit that gave the user freedom to do as they saw fit for their application - I guess I'm just sore that I'm having my decisions taken out of my hands by an odd and arbitrary programming decision!


Cheers,

Jo

Jul 9, 2011 6:43 AM in response to Josephiah

No "odd and arbitrary programming decision", just application of the good old rule :


++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++


Apple Human Interface Guidelines:

Apply the 80 Percent Solution

During the design process, if you discover problems with your product design, you might consider applying the 80 percent solution‚ that is, designing your software to meet the needs of at least 80 percent of your users. This type of design typically favors simpler, more elegant approaches to problems.

If you try to design for the 20 percent of your target audience who are power users, your design may not be usable by the other 80 percent of users. Even though that smaller group of power users is likely to have good ideas for features, the majority of your user base may not think in the same way. Involving a broad range of users in your design process can help you find the 80 percent solution.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++


Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 9 juillet 2011 15:41:33

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community


To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

Jul 9, 2011 10:50 PM in response to KOENIG Yvan

Thanks Yvan, very interesting, and makes perfect sense.


Once again, apologies for not being clear:

The design decision to limit the number of labels make good sense to avoid clutter.

The decision to limit it specifically to 10, unless they undertook a survey which showed that 80% of users would never have a use for more than 10 (which seems unlikely, but of course they might have done), is arbitrary, and from my point of view seems odd.


Cheers for your help and interesting discussion guys,

J

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How do I customise the tick marks and/or grid lines on a chart?

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