Workflow: AVCHD to Proxy editing (no optimizing), Export from original media. Any disadvantages?

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Workflow: AVCHD to Proxy editing (no optimizing), Export from original media. Any disadvantages?

I've been reading AVCHD threads for FCP 7 and now FCP-X for a year or two. I understand the concepts. Now with FCP-X, I don't see any advantages to optimizing media to Apple Pro Res 422 on import. I'd be using the Pro Res Proxy and then ultimately exporting out with the original source files. The Proxy files will make editing fast, the export from source files removes any chance of generation loss, and not optimizing to Pro Res 422 at import will save a ton of backup space over the years. I realize the final export may take a bit longer from the raw AVCHD files vs. from Pro Res 422 media (how long I don't know yet).

Based on this scenario, any good reasons as to why I should be also creating the Apple Pro Res 422 files? Am I missing anything?

Thanks,

Dave

Hardware: Brand New 2011 MacBook Pro i7 17" with external eSata drives.

Posted on Jul 12, 2011 12:30 PM

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Answer 1

Jul 13, 2011 1:52 AM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

I should leave this to the experts.. but can offer this thought

Have you considered trying the whole workflow natively - neither optimizing nor proxy, just directly working with the H264 originals? Transitions and effects etc would be rendered to ProRes on the fly, but nothing else. With 1080i60 originals this approach has been OK for me on a MacBook pro i7 4-core 2.66 w 4G of 1067 ram, occasional beachballs but nothing I couldn't live with, and it's so simple to do.

Cheers - though I'm kinda envious of a 17" machine....

Chris.

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Answer 2

Jul 13, 2011 11:13 AM in response to ctzsnooze

Chris,

I have considered the native option and I will test with it as soon as I download FCP-X. I just got the new laptop a couple of days ago, so I'm finishing getting it set up. I've got FCP 7 on another machine for fall back which I doubt I'll even bother to load on the new 17".

...but, it still seems that the Proxy files are so small that all the normal chores will be that much quicker and smoother with less or no spinning beachballs and would likely mean that I can do most everything without an external drive connected until I get to export. I am glad to hear though that the native option does work well for you.

Thanks,

Dave

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Answer 3

Jul 13, 2011 11:18 AM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

I just edited a wedding using native HDV 1080i/24P and AVCHD 1080i files together on a single timeline. There were a few crashes (all of them were while background processing like analysis was going on), but overall I found the experience to responsive and overall positive. There are still some bugs to be worked out, though.

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Answer 4

Jul 14, 2011 9:30 PM in response to slightcomedy

I'm glad to hear that native essentially worked for you. I believe, based on this and numerous similar threads, I won't need to transcode to standard Pro Res 422 and will either go "native" or use Proxy files.

Questions:

1. When you are ready to export, you MUST switch the playback to Original Material so FCP-X knows not to export with the Proxy files? I've seen posts implying this might be true and also that FCP-X will know to export using the source files and not Proxies.

2. Once I set up a new Event and point it to the original source files and create the Proxy files, can I assume that since the Proxies are created, FCP-X won't need to reference the source files again until export time? If this is the case, I can easily work on my laptop's internal drive without lugging around an external drive until I'm finally ready to export. I don't have the steps down yet, but I believe there is a post at CreativeCow that outlines how to copy the Event from the external to internal, delete the source files on the Event located on the internal drive, do your work, and then move the Event and project back to the external for export. This would save a lot of moving around from room to room of an external drive.

Thanks again,

Dave

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Answer 5

hafken

Level 4

1,225 points

Jul 15, 2011 5:12 AM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

Harmonica_Lessons wrote:

Questions:

1. When you are ready to export, you MUST switch the playback to Original Material so FCP-X knows not to export with the Proxy files? I've seen posts implying this might be true and also that FCP-X will know to export using the source files and not Proxies.

No. You don't have to do this. Playback is just that, playback. When exporting, FCP X will not use transcoded media as the source. You do of course need to have the original source available/on line for FCP X to access. However, switching back and forth is a simple and quick operation so even if you did have to,

2. Once I set up a new Event and point it to the original source files and create the Proxy files, can I assume that since the Proxies are created, FCP-X won't need to reference the source files again until export time? If this is the case, I can easily work on my laptop's internal drive without lugging around an external drive until I'm finally ready to export.

Yes, this is true. You can either do the method you described (copying the event to/from external to internal drives), or have the event on your laptop with the original source media on the external drive. Proxy media would be generated and stored in the Event folder (on your internal drive) while source media remains on the external drive. Just don't select 'copy into event folder' when importing the source media.

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Answer 6

Jeaux

Level 2

163 points

Jul 15, 2011 5:26 AM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

Harmonica:

I believe the advantage to converting to ProRes on import for editing is that when it's time to export the project to a movie, there is less processing to be done. Otherwise, proxy editing should improve performance on the editing side.

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Answer 7

Jul 15, 2011 12:27 PM in response to Jeaux

Jeaux,

I agree and I'm willing to spend the extra time when exporting.

Although drives are cheap these days, I've already got too many as it is and from having worked in FCP 7 with AVCHD files transcoded to Pro Res 422, the storage requirements add up quite quickly. Original source files (not copied to the Event) and use of Pre Res 422 Proxy files should solve this problem.

Thanks,

Dave

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Answer 8

Jul 15, 2011 2:39 PM in response to hafken

Hafken,

"...You do of course need to have the original source available/on line for FCP X to access. However, switching back and forth is a simple and quick operation so even if you did have to."

Excellent, makes perfect sense.

Thanks,

Dave

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Answer 9

Jeaux

Level 2

163 points

Jul 15, 2011 2:48 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

Harmonica_Lessons wrote:

I agree and I'm willing to spend the extra time when exporting.

Me too. Lots of other things to do in the meantime and I work in short form most of the time anyway...

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Answer 10

Jul 15, 2011 7:02 PM in response to Jeaux

Jeaux,

I've seen the phrase before, but what do you mean by "short form"?

Thanks,

Dave

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Answer 11

Jeaux

Level 2

163 points

Jul 15, 2011 7:49 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

Dave, professionally, commercials.

Personal stuff is usually short little movies, music videos, and the like. Do you watch the vids at Vimeo?

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Answer 12

Jul 15, 2011 7:58 PM in response to Jeaux

Jeaux wrote:

Do you watch the vids at Vimeo?

Yah, can you post a couple of links to your stuff or tell me what to search for? I'd like to see what you're doing for music videos.

Thanks,

Dave

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Answer 13

Jeaux

Level 2

163 points

Jul 15, 2011 8:37 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

Dave, I have a few things there, but forgive me if I don't share links to them here.

Here are a few videos I've bookmarked that I like and resonate with the kind of stuff I do for fun...

http://vimeo.com/14139764

http://vimeo.com/20052026

http://vimeo.com/15316040

http://vimeo.com/25943947

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Answer 14

Jul 15, 2011 9:15 PM in response to Jeaux

Jeaux,

Ah, I see now. When you mentioned music videos, my brain when in a completely different direction. Cool stuff.

Dave

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Answer 15

Jul 18, 2011 4:16 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

[Back on topic]

For anyone who finds this post at a future date, here's some other posts and materials I've found very helpful in determining a good AVCHD workflow using Proxy files and more:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3174838?tstart=30

http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/read.php?19,270132,270132#msg-270132

"Using Disk Images (for Events)"- http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_managing_disk_image_martin.html

"Taking projects on the go with you"- http://library.creativecow.net/articles/mcauliffe_kevin/FCPX-media-on-the-go/vid eo-tutorial

"Basic Media Management" http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_media_management_stone.html

Excellent general AVCHD post- https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3131540

Dave

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