How to do clean install and install lion

I am not understanding the "argument" for not doing a clean install. It is specifically what the OP asked how to do, not if it was ever needed. I have been using Apple products for 30 years, and PC/Uninx/mainframe products for just as long. To state there is no reason to do a clean install is ignorant. A clean install resolves numerous issues. Those issues do vary depending of the OS.

Case in point, my install of Bento became literally un-usable after the Lion update. No amount of Time Machine backups, cloning, removing preferences, reinstalling the app, etc... will fix an issue like this. Luckily, my MobileMe Keychain was still available. A clean install followed by re-installing the individual apps from Time Machine DID resolve the issue. It turns out this also resolved dozens of other smaller issues that I had with Lion, and expecting resolutions in the next update.

A clean install is, in some situations, a necessary evil regardless of if it is MacOS X or some other OS. Knowing how to use Time Machine to restore individual files, apps, preferences, and other library files goes much further than just doing a generic restore from Time Machine.

This is very similar to doing a restore on an iOS device and then setting it up as a new device, instead of restoring from a backup. The same problems are included in the backup already. Why restore a problem to the machine?

MLadd wrote:

I am not understanding the "argument" for not doing a clean install.

Kindly review the posts. Most, including mine, say it's rarely required, and rarely accomplishes much good, not that it shouldn't ever be done under any circumstances.

The original post doesn't mention having any problems whatsoever. Most of the responses advising against it say, in effect, if you aren't having a problem, there's no reason to do it.

There are many, many threads in these forums where that's the first thing users inquire about to solve some problem. In most cases, it's unnecessary, complex, vast overkill, and (especially for a novice to casual user) introduces more problems.

Yes, there are times when it's necessary, but usually only as a last resort, or for those who like doing such things. Personally, I've never had to do one on a Mac. I've been posting here for several years, and can recall only 2 or 3 threads where it was necessary.

It is specifically what the OP asked how to do, not if it was ever needed.

Again, kindly review the thread. The very first response was . . . how to do it. But if someone's kitchen faucet is leaking, and asks how to rip out and remodel the kitchen to fix it, wouldn't you suggest replacing the faucet washer before employing the nuclear option?

Case in point,

. . .

A clean install is, in some situations, a necessary evil

Exactly. In some situations. But it's a daunting, complex task, more so the more 3rd-party apps you have, and the less comfortable with such things you are.

All we're saying is, don't do it just because you used to do it on Windoze, or somebody told you it would be a good idea, or you don't know how else to fix a problem.

Very well. You're right.

Some of us and I believe its quite a lot from the genius at the perth store have many problems after installing lion and the only solution is to copy all our data off reformat and reinstall lion as apple have no other suggestion on a fix for the mess they have caused.

yo simonfromscarborough: I went to the Robina store and had a disccusion about this thread and how people are saying that the minority have to do a clean install and how dogmatic they were about this view. They backup your view that quite a lot of the genius here 'HAVE' to do clean installs to resovle issues but couldn't speak for the rest of the stores. It's just their experience. It appears a little more wde spread.

People like Pondini are just flogging a dead horse to fly the Apple flag and are to closed minded to be of assistance when you need help about about Apple issue becusase Apples never breakdown... To him and others alike, it's like you trying to prove UFOs are real 🙂

MLadd wrote:

Very well. You're right.

Tmemphis wrote:

. . .

quite a lot of the genius here 'HAVE' to do clean installs to resovle issues but couldn't speak for the rest of the stores. It's just their experience.

And perhaps they're only seeing the cases that couldn't be solved with other measures.

People like Pondini are just flogging a dead horse to fly the Apple flag

No. PLEASE actually read the thread, objectively, without pre-judging. We are not saying it's never required.

We are saying, it's rarely required, and to try other, less drastic, measures first.

And, many new or casual users have no idea how much can be involved in the "nuclear" option, and how difficult it can be to find all the orginal 3rd-party software discs, serial numbers, etc.

And perhaps they're only seeing the cases that couldn't be solved with other measures.

And perhaps they're not. Perhaps it's standard practice.

PLEASE actually read the thread, objectively,

Please do the same. WE are trying to answer the OP's original message, but you won't allow that. That some people don't agree with your opinion does not make them right and you wrong. That you disagree with ours does not make you right or us wrong. These are opinions. I do clean installs all the time. It's easier than most fixes, especially if you know what you are doing and already have a clean backup to start from.

We are saying, it's rarely required, and to try other, less drastic, measures first.

Rarely for you. Many users do this regularly, without any major, on-going issues with their machine. It's still good practice to do so and it ABSOLUTELY does increase the performance of your machine.

MLadd wrote:

WE are trying to answer the OP's original message, but you won't allow that.

Oh, be serious. The very first response answerd the question. In July. And the OP hasn't posted here in over 3 months.

And how am I "not allowing" anyone to post anything?

Rarely for you.

Rarely to fix problems in these forums, too.

Many users do this regularly, without any major, on-going issues with their machine.

And in most cases it's a waste of time. But if you like doing it, that's your choice.

It's still good practice to do so and it ABSOLUTELY does increase the performance of your machine.

That's disputed by many very experienced users (again, in most cases) on OSX. Windoze, of course, is a different story. Many of the users here in the last few years who ask if that's what's needed turn out to be people who were used to Windoze. Ususally a much less drastic steps fixes the problem on OSX.

Apple rarely recommends it (I've never seen a technical article recommending it, or detailing how to do it), and even removed the Erase and Install option, effective with Snow Leopard.

Clearly, your mind is made up that's it's a good practice for everyone in lots of circumstances. We'll have to disagree.

Pondini Wrote:
That's disputed by many very experienced users (again, in most cases) on OSX. Windoze, of course, is a different story.

No it is not disputed by many because it cannot be disputed that a clean install runs faster, better and trouble free as aposed to an upgraded or 2 year old image on any format.

I agree with MLADD, he appears to be objective about the issue. I'm uncertian any more of your motives but you appear to be arguing for the sack of arguing.

Simple truth is people in the world need to do clean installs for whatever reason, so just lets help them without the Apple banter from you about how many need to do it or don't need to do it etc, etc, etc.

And just looking thru the subjects in this forum, there appaers to be a lot of people asking about it.

Tmemphis wrote:

. . .

No it is not disputed by many

Yes, it is. Many experienced users, especially in these forums, several of whom have been doing tech support on Macs for 20 years.

because it cannot be disputed that a clean install runs faster, better and trouble free as aposed to an upgraded or 2 year old image on any format.

Yes, it can be disputed on OSX. (Unless, of course, you're in the habit of doing things like partially-deleting applications that have background apps, so they keep starting and failing.) Unlike Windoze, apps that aren't running don't affect performance.

I agree with MLADD, he appears to be objective about the issue.

I disagree. I keep saying that, in my experience, and that of several others here, it's rarely required or helpful. He keeps saying it's a good practice, apparently in all sorts of circumstances.

I'm uncertian any more of your motives

Trying to keep the unwary from tackling something that should be a last resort, with insufficient warning about the complexity and difficulty.

but you appear to be arguing for the sack of arguing.

I could say that about your side, too.

Simple truth is people in the world need to do clean installs for whatever reason, so just lets help them without the Apple banter from you about how many need to do it or don't need to do it etc, etc, etc.

If they need to, fine. How was posted long ago, though without much detail about all the things that need to be found and step-by-step instructions. Why don't you post that, if that's what you're interested in?

If they don't need to, it's not a good idea.

And just looking thru the subjects in this forum, there appaers to be a lot of people asking about it.

A few. In most cases it's not required or helpful, certainly not as a first step.

Why don't you help some folks actually resolve some problems? See how many really need to do it, and walk them through the process. That might change your perspective. It certainly changed mine on a number of things.

Pondini, you just proved my point to why your here.

I'm here to help folks. Note the "points" under my avatar. Those are earned from OPs, 5 and 10 points at a time, for what they mark as "helpful" or "Correct" answers.

Why are you here?

I am here because I am very frustrated that the Lion upgrade I bought and downloaded as intended has trashed a perfectly good working MBP. Windoze not even vista did that to any of my previous pcs. I dont see why I should be the one to have to sort out apples problems. As a fairly new mac user 16 months I am not sure where the various parts of MY data might be stored and I really dont want to loose any.

I understand that, and sympathize.

But the fact is, complaining here won't accomplish anything. Apple engineers do not read these forums.

If you have backups from Snow Leopard, you can restore them, and be back where you were before installing Lion.

You can call Apple. If you bought AppleCare with your Mac, there's no charge (although it may be a toll call). If you don't think you're being treated right, ask for Customer Service (firmly but politely).

You can take it to your AppleStore or Apple Authorized Repair Location.

Or you can try to fix the problem(s). Usually, after a bit of diagnosis, we can suggest a fix. Most of the time, it's relatively easy. But you'll have to post some details, and it may take some back-and-forth to try various things and report the results.

If you want to do that, please start your own thread. Include as many details as possible, including your setup, what you've tried, and the results. And, for best results, drop the attitude -- many of the folks (volunteers) who help here won't respond to a post with that flavor.