Airport Extreme (5th gen): TM doesn't work with the 5GHz mode

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4 points

Airport Extreme (5th gen): TM doesn't work with the 5GHz mode

Hi

I have an Airport Extreme (5th gen) connected to a WD 4TB (usb). I'm trying to use it with Time Machine in the same way I used to do with my first gen. Time Capsule.

The problem is the 5 GHz network. If a Mac is using 5 GHz network and is starting to backup, the network will crash in a few seconds. The green light on the Extreme will be still on but the wireless network is gone. Only way to get it back is unplugging the Airport Extreme.

When a Mac is using 2,4 Ghz, there is no problem.

I've got a MacBook Pro and a MacBook Air and I'd like to backup both. Sometimes the Macs are using 2,4GHz and sometimes 5 GHz. Usually they are first on 2,4 GHz but then they change radio mode to 5 Ghz that is faster when they are "talking" to each other or to Apple TV. It's possible to make them change from 2,4 to 5 Ghz by turning Airport-marker off and on. Usually the Macs change from 2,4 GHz to 5 GHz that way. But I don't how to do the opposite or even force the MacBooks using just 2,4 GHz.

I have also an Airport Express extending my network. I've connected the airports in "the new way" so that both devices are using an ethernet cable and have identical setups. This is working very well. If I carry a MacBook thru my place, it will use the better signal. Near the Extreme Mac is using mainly 5 GHz and near the Express it changes to 2,4 GHz. Signals are stronger than extending wirelessly.

When Time Machine freezes Airport Extreme, "Express" disappears from Airport Utility menu. I suppose this happens because the Extreme was creating the network in the first place and the Express was extending it? Although after everything is installed ok, they both are "creating network".

Any ideas why TM doesn't work with 5 GHz?

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8)

Posted on Jul 20, 2011 7:12 AM

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Answer 1

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Tesserax

Level 10

148,239 points

Jul 20, 2011 8:28 AM in response to rikejokela

The issue you are seeing, most likely, is not due to the 5 GHz radio band, but instead to the fact that Apple does NOT support Time Machine backups to HDDs attached to the 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station's (AEBSn) USB port.

(ref: Time Machine does not backup to AirPort Extreme AirPort Disks)

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Answer 2

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 20, 2011 8:51 AM in response to Tesserax

Thanx a lot.

You're right!

I didn't noticed that on Apple' site. I just read about hard drive sharing etc. and I assumed I can use it with Time Machine too.

http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/features/harddrivesharing.html

I've still got my old Time Capsule. I wonder is there any chance I could plug it also to the system and use it for Time Machine - when it is not the main AirPort.

Anyway I am going to buy a QNAP NAS or something that should be able to use Time Machine too.

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Answer 3

Tesserax

Level 10

148,239 points

Jul 20, 2011 8:58 AM in response to rikejokela

I've still got my old Time Capsule. I wonder is there any chance I could plug it also to the system and use it for Time Machine - when it is not the main AirPort.

Yes, the Time Capsule can still be used along with the AirPort Extreme to allow for Time Machine backups on your network. Since the AirPort Extreme will be the main router, you just need to connect the TC directly to one of the available LAN ports on the Extreme, and then, reconfigure the TC as a bridge for this to work.

(ref: AirPort Utility > Select the TC > Manual Setup > Internet > Internet Connection tab > Connection Sharing = Off (Bridge Mode))

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Answer 4

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 20, 2011 9:05 AM in response to Tesserax

Thanx again.

I'l try that...

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Answer 5

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 20, 2011 10:16 AM in response to Tesserax

Did you noticed this:

"Time Machine in Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard can be used to back up to many kinds of Mac OS Extended-formatted drives, but you cannot choose an AirPort Extreme 802.11n's AirPort Disk as a Time Machine backup volume."

It doesn't tell anything about OS v10.6 - v10.7

Maybe there is somewhere something about Snow Leopard and Lion too?

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Answer 6

Tesserax

Level 10

148,239 points

Jul 20, 2011 10:25 AM in response to rikejokela

Although this article is a bit dated, it still applies for both 10.6 & 10.7 and, unfortunately, with the latest (5th Gen) AirPort Extreme.

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Answer 7

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 20, 2011 10:30 AM in response to Tesserax

OK.

I'm just now running Intego Backup Manager Pro's first backup to the same WD 4T. It seems to be working fine...

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Answer 8

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 21, 2011 7:55 AM in response to Tesserax

I'd like to ask you one more thing 🙂

Now I've got my Time Capsule (1. gen) too connected to my network (ethernet cable / Bridge Mode). It seems to be working fine.

What would be the best Radio Mode for it?

- 802.11n (802.11b/g compatible)

- 802.11n only (2,4 GHz)

- 802.11n (802.11a compatible)

- 802.11n only (5 GHz)

The gear using wireless is: MacBook Pro 2009, MacBook Air 2011, iPad2, iPhones 3g and 4, Apple TV (black)

+ an iMac 2007 is located other side of the apartment and takes signal from the Airport Express.

802.11n (802.11b/g compatible) seems to be preset in the Time Capsule as it is in the AirPort Express.

Does 802.11n mean it's receiving 2,4 Ghz or 5 Ghz depending on something? Or does it mean that it uses only 2,4 GHz?

Should I try to transmit a strong 5 GHz signal in the living room and near where Mac, iPad and Apple TV usually are? So is 802.11n only (5GHz) then the best choice for the Time Capsule?

A bit confusing....

Ps. Backup Manager Pro crashes also network when it's trying to backup to the drive coonnected to the Extreme...

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Answer 9

Tesserax

Level 10

148,239 points

Jul 21, 2011 8:10 AM in response to rikejokela

What would be the best Radio Mode for it?

- 802.11n (802.11b/g compatible)

- 802.11n only (2,4 GHz)

- 802.11n (802.11a compatible)

- 802.11n only (5 GHz)

The gear using wireless is: MacBook Pro 2009, MacBook Air 2011, iPad2, iPhones 3g and 4, Apple TV (black)

+ an iMac 2007 is located other side of the apartment and takes signal from the Airport Express.

Because one of your devices (iPhone 3G) is not "n" capable, the "802.11n (802.11b/g compatible) will be the best Radio Mode.

802.11n (802.11b/g compatible) seems to be preset in the Time Capsule as it is in the AirPort Express.

Does 802.11n mean it's receiving 2,4 Ghz or 5 Ghz depending on something? Or does it mean that it uses only 2,4 GHz?

In this case "802.11n" is operating in the 2.4 GHz radio band. Unlike some of the other modes, 802.11n can work on either the 2.4 or 5 GHz band. 802.11a works only on the 5 GHz band, and finally, 802.11b/g only works on the 2.4 GHz band. Since the 2st generation TC is NOT simultaneous dual-band, it can only operate on one or the other and (albeit, presented a bit awkwardly) "802.11n (802.11b/g)" means 802.11n is running on the 2.4 GHz radio since the b/g modes can only operate on this band. Make sense?

Should I try to transmit a strong 5 GHz signal in the living room and near where Mac, iPad and Apple TV usually are? So is 802.11n only (5GHz) then the best choice for the Time Capsule?

You could, but not all of the network clients you listed can operate on the 5 GHz band, like the iPhone 3G.

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Answer 10

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 21, 2011 8:22 AM in response to Tesserax

Yes, it makes sense.

I think the iPhones are getting quite good signals anyway and I could "waste" the third Airport (TC) just to strenghten 5 GHz...

Thanks again.

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Answer 11

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 23, 2011 10:32 AM in response to Tesserax

It is working but.... I didn't mention this if it makes any difference.

All the apartments in the quarter where I live (Helsinki, Finland) have an optical fibre internet connection (free internet). There are distribution boards in all the apartments. I use a 10/100/1000 Zyxel to share network to three rooms. There are ethernet sockets in all rooms.

As I told, I've got one Airport Extreme and two Aiport Expresses to extend the signal. Every Airport is connected straight to an independent ethernet socket.

I've been looking for instructions in Apple's support sites about this kind of system but haven't found any. "A roaming network" is the closest one I can find. In that system you set Airport extreme as "a main router" and set: Internet / Connection sharing / Share A Public IP address. I understand that is because in the roaming mode you connect the other airpoirts straight to the Extreme?

I don't do that but I have set all three devices Off (Bridge Mode). And it is working ok this way. I'm just thinking is it the right way? All just Bridge Modes, all the settings identical in every device?

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Answer 12

Tesserax

Level 10

148,239 points

Jul 23, 2011 12:12 PM in response to rikejokela

Your recently revealed network confguration may be the difference. By that I mean, for a roaming network to work, each base station must be on the same network subnet. This is typically done in one of two fashions: 1) Connecting all the base stations back to a single base station, or 2) Stringing them together in a daisy-chain where there is an Ethernet connection originating from the main base station, and then, each subsequent base station is added to the next.

With three separate Ethernet circuits coming into your apartment, I don't know if they are all on the same subnet or have purposely been configured to be separate ones.

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Answer 13

rikejokela Author

Level 1

4 points

Jul 23, 2011 1:06 PM in response to Tesserax

I mean one circuit is coming in and I can choose where to connect it. 1 in / 3 out. The original idea 2003 was that you could choose the room where you wanna have your computer and go to www 🙂

For a long time I have used a swich to share the connection to all rooms. And now I have those three devices in all of them: Extreme (5th gen 2011), Express (2011), Express (2008).

I gave up the TC because everytime I tried to use Time Machine network died. Anyway I've ordered QNAP NAS with 3T Seagate. It should be Time Machine friendly.

Picture:

The longer extra cable goes now to that another Express I'm testing with 5 GHz. Other 3 go to 3 rooms.

I think that with this kind of connection all the devices are "equal". No one is in the charge. Any sense?

(For some reason the picture is not showing in the right position at least now when I'm typing this. Cables should go up and Zyxel is just hanging)

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Answer 14

lippido

Level 1

34 points

Jul 24, 2011 2:07 AM in response to Tesserax

New to Mac.

I'm not sure I understand what this says:

Apple does NOT support Time Machine backups to HDDs attached to the 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station's (AEBSn) USB port.

Here is my scenario:

I have MacBook Pro 15" laptop on a Cisco router. I connected a WD 1TB hard drive and can't get to the hard drive at all. I found out now that this router only configures to Iomega (4) and WD (2) hard drives. The hard drive I have is not one of them. I was looking to purchase the Time Capsule 3TB but it isn't available here in Dubai. If it was it is 3 times the price of it in the US. I was thinking now about purchasing an Airport Express and connecting my WD 1TB hard drive for access and backup.

Is the note from Apple above mean I can"t perform backup through Time Machine via wireless connection? Can I plug the WD HD into the back of the Airport Express and access it via wireless connection? Are all Fat32 hard drives compatible with Airport Express? I ask because all of my existing HDs are from my PC world and are Fat32 configured.

Thanks for any help and advice. I will be glad when I return to the states and can have access to better products and technology. For now the boss has me here.

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Answer 15

Tesserax

Level 10

148,239 points

Jul 24, 2011 11:59 AM in response to lippido

I'm not sure I understand what this says:
Apple does NOT support Time Machine backups to HDDs attached to the 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station's (AEBSn) USB port.

What this means is Apple does not recommend or support Time Machine backups to USB hard drives attached to the USB port of the 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station (AEBSn). Doing so may be successful at first, but we have had a number of folks post here complaining that their backups are either corrupted or they are unable to access the drive after doing these types of backups.

If you want to perform backups from your Mac to an AirPort Disk, you will need to use another backup solution other than Time Machine.

Here is my scenario:
I have MacBook Pro 15" laptop on a Cisco router. I connected a WD 1TB hard drive and can't get to the hard drive at all. I found out now that this router only configures to Iomega (4) and WD (2) hard drives. The hard drive I have is not one of them. I was looking to purchase the Time Capsule 3TB but it isn't available here in Dubai. If it was it is 3 times the price of it in the US. I was thinking now about purchasing an Airport Express and connecting my WD 1TB hard drive for access and backup.

Is this WD drive connected to the Cisco router's USB port, Ethernet port, or by wireless?

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