Wifi Constantly Dropping in Lion

This is probably the best solution for having a great and stable WiFi connection! 😁

lol - That's just how I have imagined him!

WSR wrote:

lol - That's just how I have imagined him!

I know you guys have great fun believing that the only thing to do is point at Apple and say it's all their fault, because everything else "works". What is funny to me, is that so many will waste their time and money, believing Apple is the problem, without actually understanding what is wrong. So the end result, is that eventually either Apple does solve their problem, because they have one of the real Apple problems that we've seen fixes for so far.

1. WiFi would not reconnect comming out of sleep.

2. There is/was a hardware/firmware issue with a specific series of WiFi cards it would seem. However, Apple

has yet to include such "wording" in any updates, so it's still not clear that this is actually a problem.

So far, there are no facts which indicate that anyone should still be having problems with WiFi connected internet functions. That's why I ask whether or not these people are seeing black airport signal bars, or grey.

Once we know that the bars are staying back, then it really shifts the focus to the networking stack. There are then only about 3-4 things to consider. First, is DHCP working between your router and your computer. If you open up network preferences, and see an appropriate IP address, netmask, default/gateway router address, and the DNS tab has appropriate, working DNS server addresses. You can telnet to port 53 on those addresses and if you get a connection, you at least have connectivity. If that works, then you can instead try "dig @<ip> time-a.nist.gov" where <ip> is each of those DNS addresses, in turn, and see that it works, with output something like as shown here:

$ dig @<ip> time-a.nist.gov

; <<>> DiG 9.8.3-P1 <<>> time-a.nist.gov

;; global options: +cmd

;; Got answer:

;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 22473

;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 4

;; QUESTION SECTION:

;time-a.nist.gov. IN A

;; ANSWER SECTION:

time-a.nist.gov. 1164 IN A 129.6.15.28

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:

nist.gov. 1295 IN NS gdnsea.nist.gov.

nist.gov. 1295 IN NS dns-x.boulder.nist.gov.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:

dns-x.boulder.nist.gov. 133 IN A 132.163.4.9

dns-x.boulder.nist.gov. 133 IN AAAA 2610:20:6b01:4::9

gdnsea.nist.gov. 433 IN A 129.6.13.3

gdnsea.nist.gov. 433 IN AAAA 2610:20:6005:13::3

;; Query time: 61 msec

;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)

;; WHEN: Sat Nov 3 19:04:12 2012

;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 186

If DNS is not working, that is what you need to focus on. If your ISP or DHCP from your router, is not already using the DNS server, 8.8.8.8, which is Googles public DNS server, try adding that on your DNS tab to see if that fixes the problem.

Finally, call your ISP and ask them why DNS is not working!

Additionally, if you want to see how these kinds of problems can manifest as a "My WiFi is not working" problem, go in to your DNS settings, and put the IP address of a non-DNS server machine in, and then try and use Safari or whatever browser you use on your Mac and see how it reports the problem back to you. Usually, with a non-functional DNS server, you'll just see the page load "stall", and eventually timeout. When the DNS server is broken, then it may reply immediately with a failure and the browser will not show you the page.

Even if all your other devices are working, and you really feel that it's just your Apple computer that is having the problem, that doesn't mean, necessarily that it's problems are Apple's fault. The standards for WiFi are non-trivial, and that's why routers cost $50 or so, for low end, 802.11g and upwards of $200.00 for 802.11N with Gigabit ethernet ports and VPN services. If it was simple stuff, you'd pay $20.00 for a router, like you do an FM broadcast radio receiver.

There are many "small" or "new" companies taking the open source Linux software systems that Cisco/Linksys put together for the WRT54G router, and they are creating their own routers, by just buying the RF decks, and other bits from various parties. These cheap routers, can be problematic, if they don't have proper RFI shielding in the receiver, don't have good heat disapation and many other things which have become visible failure modes for them.

And also, the changing standards and the complexity of the software systems mean that you need to check your vendors website for firmware updates, and make sure you have the latest applicable firmware installed on your router. There can be bugs in even the newest routers, because they've become commidity priced, and are shipped with the lowest delivery cost possible. So many times, an early release of the software was burned in, at the factory, expecting the user to update it. Many routers, now have an installation CD which guides you through doing this automatically.

These things are not just a toaster that you put your bagles in for breakfast...

As long as the problem goes away when I reboot into Snow Leopard.... NO HARDWARE CHANGES!!!

Then it is something Apple did to Lion/Mountain Lion.

If it is not the OS, then please explain why it is not a problem in Snow Leopard. You cannot blame my hardware.

As Steve Jobs used to say... "It Just Works".

There should be no need for effing about with networks.

Troubleshooting Wi-Fi issues in OS X Lion and Mac OS X v10.6

Michael Sciascia wrote:

As long as the problem goes away when I reboot into Snow Leopard.... NO HARDWARE CHANGES!!!

Then it is something Apple did to Lion/Mountain Lion.

If it is not the OS, then please explain why it is not a problem in Snow Leopard. You cannot blame my hardware.

Remember, I have said that there is perhaps at least on problem which Apple needed/needs to fix regarding hardware and firmware interaction when the airport indicator is grey as opposed to when it is black, meaning that the WiFi connection is up and running.

If you have "The Apple WiFi problem", then yes, you have a gripe and you can take the actions you want.

The problem is that there are people who have other problems, and because this and the other issue have so many comments, people believe that any problem they have is "The Apple WiFi problem". Those people will have little luck waiting for Apple to fix their problem.

Also, it is apparent to me, that Apple's focus on AirPlay and other streaming and efficient network use, means that if you have a marginal WiFi network, that you may find that it is not good enough for Mac OS-X. The more advanced features and exploiting them for maximal effective use, requires very good, effective software. Apple may have some work arounds that they could put in place to deal with certain manufactures or local network environments.

Waiting for Apple to fix your problem puts your problem(s) on your shoulders to experience. You can decide whether you want someone else to fix it for you, get some help working around or fixing the problems, or going at it yourself. I choose not to waste my time waiting for someone else to fix a problem that I can understand and either point the finger at the problem and help get it fixed sooner, or otherwise fix it myself.

You are free to use your own time in whatever way you think will be best for you. But, that choice, being your choice, puts you in a position of responsibility where you get to deal with whatever falls out of that choice.

WSR wrote:

As Steve Jobs used to say... "It Just Works".

There should be no need for effing about with networks.

And for so many people, it does just work. It just works for me. I did see some of the "will not reconnect on awake" problem, but nothing else. If your effing network is an effing network, then fix it.

eliasfromnewyork wrote:

This issue was persistent in early Lion releases, but had been fixed at later upgrades. Upgrade your machine to 10.7.5, this issue is fixed now.

Not true at all, my early 2008 macbook still has serious issues. Both on 2.4 and 5.0 ghz networks, while using dhcp or static ip's, using opendns/google dns servers, or whatever. I've tried every solution out there and none is working for me. It really ****** me off to no end this isn't fixed after all this time.

Can't confirm.

Happel wrote:

eliasfromnewyork wrote:

This issue was persistent in early Lion releases, but had been fixed at later upgrades. Upgrade your machine to 10.7.5, this issue is fixed now.

Not true at all, my early 2008 macbook still has serious issues. Both on 2.4 and 5.0 ghz networks, while using dhcp or static ip's, using opendns/google dns servers, or whatever. I've tried every solution out there and none is working for me. It really ****** me off to no end this isn't fixed after all this time.

Can you give specifics about what you see happening? Do your airport "bars" go grey when your network is not working, or do the stay black? Also, if you are seeing a message in your browser window, can you type the text you see there, into here so that I might be able to understand which type of service is actually failing?

When you try to connect to a web page, does it immediately fail, or does it hang for a bit and then fail?

I changed my router to channel 10 and it worked no problem

@gphonei. I agree with you (no spectrum analyzer etc.); all I meant to say is that my WiFi is not really bad either - no gross misconfiguration, proper channel distribution (no overlap), signal powerful enough etc. Again, all other devices work well enough (no flap).

I know how to use tcpdump but I simply know there are retransmissions on my WiFi as I can see my AP statistics. Drops are not bad enough to be noticeable on a voip call though -- I could stay on VoIP calls for hours without problem before upgrading to ML.

The WiFi is also very stable (no flap) when I have a very clean connection in some part of the house.

It indeed seems that ML is a lot more sensitive to WiFi mishaps and tears down the connection when the retransmission count gets too high ("high" being apparently very relative) or something to that effect.

At this point, it seems some channels are more affected than others (channel 6 in particular) but this is not certain.

I will try to figure the number of retransmissions needed to flap the link but this will take time as I am busy.

I temporarily fixed my problem by swapping channels between AP's to have the "steadier" channels near the place I work.

At this stage however, I would expect Apple to know about the problem and issue a fix. The interface flaps even under very light load (e.g. simply some call manager packets and periodic upgrade checks) when I sit at the same place I could VoIP from on SL.

Practically, I do not see myself requesting the airport or coffee shop to swap channel around just for me. Can you just picture the situation ? :-)

I also do not even see how AirPlay is going to work better by just disassociating and reconnecting on the same AP and same channel seconds later. If this is not a bug, the design does not make much sense either.

Sorry; I know this is not very quantitative but I switched from Linux to Mac to "just work" and I really do not have much time to troubleshoot these days. I will sit on my workaround until I have time to do better (probably doing an air capture from a 2nd computer).

TotallyFred wrote:

@gphonei. I agree with you (no spectrum analyzer etc.); all I meant to say is that my WiFi is not really bad either - no gross misconfiguration, proper channel distribution (no overlap), signal powerful enough etc. Again, all other devices work well enough (no flap).

I know how to use tcpdump but I simply know there are retransmissions on my WiFi as I can see my AP statistics. Drops are not bad enough to be noticeable on a voip call though -- I could stay on VoIP calls for hours without problem before upgrading to ML.

The WiFi is also very stable (no flap) when I have a very clean connection in some part of the house.

It indeed seems that ML is a lot more sensitive to WiFi mishaps and tears down the connection when the retransmission count gets too high ("high" being apparently very relative) or something to that effect.

At this point, it seems some channels are more affected than others (channel 6 in particular) but this is not certain.

I will try to figure the number of retransmissions needed to flap the link but this will take time as I am busy.

I temporarily fixed my problem by swapping channels between AP's to have the "steadier" channels near the place I work.

At this stage however, I would expect Apple to know about the problem and issue a fix. The interface flaps even under very light load (e.g. simply some call manager packets and periodic upgrade checks) when I sit at the same place I could VoIP from on SL.

Practically, I do not see myself requesting the airport or coffee shop to swap channel around just for me. Can you just picture the situation ? :-)

I also do not even see how AirPlay is going to work better by just disassociating and reconnecting on the same AP and same channel seconds later. If this is not a bug, the design does not make much sense either.

Sorry; I know this is not very quantitative but I switched from Linux to Mac to "just work" and I really do not have much time to troubleshoot these days. I will sit on my workaround until I have time to do better (probably doing an air capture from a 2nd computer).

It really seems to me, that there is less tollerance of particular types of errors, and this is very visible in some places because of the local environment. All I can do is speculate. Sounds like you've found something to work for now, but it would be great for Apple to do something, if at all possible, to reduce the drops due to network errors.

Indeed, the drops are not helping anyone have a better experience, let alone make AirPlay more viable.

I have the issue, and I'm running 10.6.8. Wifi bars stay dark. Macbook connection drops out. All other devices in the house (voip, PC, android phone) stay connected so my router is still operational. Macbook connection is restored when I cycle power on its airport software switch. I just discovered this forum. I have been running Snow Leopard for almost a year and am just noticing this wifi issue (or whatever it is) in the last week. Perhaps it has been laying dormant or has been very infrequent that I haven't noticed it until now. I need a solid connection for school (taking online tests, etc.). I have made some router changes (increased security) in the last week and will investigate returning back to WEP from WPA among other changes. Fixing a problem that appears intermittently is more difficult than something that can be repeatedly broken in a predictable pattern, and stays broken. The problem occured several times this afternoon but I do not know how to trigger it.