Q: Wifi Constantly Dropping in Lion

Thanks for noting this, Michael....useful to know that even the same computer runs fine if it boots in Snow Leopard!

What irks me is that Lion works just fine with Apple's router! But then maybe that's the only one they tested it with? Not likely I would have thought. Or maybe they want us all to go out and buy an Airport Extreme?

Fair point Joseph, but this issue is so widespread that Apple should then do some investigating and release a support document. It's unreasonable for them to expect us to be able to troubleshoot problems like software/network engineers or developers can. Apple has the resources to do this kind of testing, but self-organizing thousands of people around the world with varying technical expertise....that's kind of hopeless. Even in one country (for example, the UK) not only does every major provider use a different router pretty much, but even the same provider can have different models, making diagnosis by consumers impractical.

sgt_harris,

I agree...

We all know there is some problem with Lion and some wireless routers...

I certianly am not suggesting everyone run out and buy a new router...

Apple apparently made some changes..

Are they using newer technology now in this system that is causing problems with older wireless technology that some routers may have?

I don't know, I don't work for Apple and they aren't telling....

Maybe some of the older routers need a firmware update and those companies may be working on just that?

Something like Firewire 400 cables that won't plug into the new computers with a Firewire 800 connection...

You would either need an adapter, a new cable, or a new device that has Firewire 800...

Some people still refuse to list what wireless router they are using...

As you mention, people in the UK or other places around the world are using different devices...

As I mentioned before, I am using a 4th Generation Airport Extreme.

I have never owned any other brand of wireless router.

There are other good brands out there but it seems that Lion may not like some of them at this time.

Yup. Things would be so much easier if there was a clear cause of this issue (i.e. a specific thing that triggers this in Lion). I appreciate you're trying to help us find our way through this nebulous issue

Joseph Kriz wrote:

 

sgt_harris,

 

I agree...

 

We all know there is some problem with Lion and some wireless routers...

I certianly am not suggesting everyone run out and buy a new router...

 

Apple apparently made some changes..

Are they using newer technology now in this system that is causing problems with older wireless technology that some routers may have?

I don't know, I don't work for Apple and they aren't telling....

 

Maybe some of the older routers need a firmware update and those companies may be working on just that?

 

Something like Firewire 400 cables that won't plug into the new computers with a Firewire 800 connection...

You would either need an adapter, a new cable, or a new device that has Firewire 800...

 

Some people still refuse to list what wireless router they are using...

 

As you mention, people in the UK or other places around the world are using different devices...

 

As I mentioned before, I am using a 4th Generation Airport Extreme.

I have never owned any other brand of wireless router.

There are other good brands out there but it seems that Lion may not like some of them at this time.

I am not saying this with an hostility mean towards you, but if this was the case, don't you think there should have been a warning for people buying or updating to Lion? This isn't not a solution, it's an excuse.  And back to common sense, every other device I have ever had in my house (dozens of devices) have no problem with my router or network.   There is no an issue with the router.  There is an issue with Lion using it.  The idea that a hardware solution of any kind would be REQUIRED to fix the issue seems ridiculous.

I don't list the router brand because I have listed it in other posts.  Tons of people have.  There is no common thread that has been shown between router brands and the issue.   Only Lion not working with them.

wbowles,

Just an FYI, I have an Apple router, two in fact, and Lion has a problem with them.  Hope that it makes you feel

somewhat better that you don't have to drink the whole glass of Apple Kool-aid to get things to work, because it doesn't. 

torndownunit wrote:

 

Joseph Kriz wrote:

 

sgt_harris,

 

I agree...

 

We all know there is some problem with Lion and some wireless routers...

I certianly am not suggesting everyone run out and buy a new router...

 

Apple apparently made some changes..

Are they using newer technology now in this system that is causing problems with older wireless technology that some routers may have?

I don't know, I don't work for Apple and they aren't telling....

 

Maybe some of the older routers need a firmware update and those companies may be working on just that?

 

Something like Firewire 400 cables that won't plug into the new computers with a Firewire 800 connection...

You would either need an adapter, a new cable, or a new device that has Firewire 800...

 

Some people still refuse to list what wireless router they are using...

 

As you mention, people in the UK or other places around the world are using different devices...

 

As I mentioned before, I am using a 4th Generation Airport Extreme.

I have never owned any other brand of wireless router.

There are other good brands out there but it seems that Lion may not like some of them at this time.

 

I am not saying this with any hostility meant towards you, but if this was the case, don't you think there should have been a warning for people buying or updating to Lion? This isn't a solution, it's an excuse.  And back to common sense, every other device I have ever had in my house (dozens of devices) have no problem with my router or network.   There is no an issue with the router.  There is an issue with Lion using it.  The idea that a hardware solution of any kind would be REQUIRED to fix the issue seems ridiculous.

 

I don't list the router brand because I have listed it in other posts.  Tons of people have.  There is no common thread that has been shown between router brands and the issue.   Only Lion not working with them.

excuse my numerous typos in this one, half asleep lol.  semi-corrected in quote.

torndownunit:

I stand corrected. It's just that I've read quite a few msgs where the writer switched to Apple's router and everything was just hunky-dory.

B

wbowles wrote:

 

torndownunit:

 

I stand corrected. It's just that I've read quite a few msgs where the writer switched to Apple's router and everything was just hunky-dory.

 

B

I have read numerous posts of an Apple router solving the problem... but also read quite a few where it didn't.  There was quite a few posts related to that earlier on in the thread.

Well it fixed me... but I have a brand spanking new one with the dual channel support. Does everyone else have that or perhaps the first gen Extreme or Time Capsule ?

torndownunit wrote:

 

There is a common sense aspect here.   If a network 'just works' with every single other device you run on it, and worked with Snow Leopard, there is SOME kind of Lion issue going on. The simple fact is the average user should not have to be spending days resolving a problem like this. Even those of us who have used Macs for 15+years are having major issues with this, what is the average consumer going to do?  Yes, I was able to fix my problem.  But it was just as much luck and perseverance.  I went through hoops I should have never had to go through on a brand new machine with a fresh install of the OS.

 

Yes, millions of people are running Lion with no problems.  But I am reading more and more about this issue not just on here, but on other forums I use.  So while it's not happening to everyone, it is happening with a lot of people. There are a lot of people who will never join a discussion like this either.  They will keep taking their machine to the Genius Bar over and over again getting no real resolution.  People in these threads have had replacement machines and still had the problem.  I have run into people who actually think this is just 'a problem with Macs' and are living with it.   They shouldn't be, but they also shouldn't have to ever deal with this nonsense in the first place.

Which would you rather do, spend a week to work through the various pieces of data, and report to Apple what needs to be fixed, or wait 6 months for them to decide what the problem might be (I'd guess no one at Apple is having this problem, and it did not appear in their testing of Lion)?

Saying you're not responsible, is a cop out.  If you want your world to be a healthy productive community, then you need to participate in it.  The price you paid for your equipment includes support, so you have every right to demand Apple fix the problem.  However, it is in your own very best interest to be a part of the solution, no matter how much you think the price you paid is actually worth to you.

If you are standing at a busy intersection as a pedestrian, and the walk light turns green, do you step off the curb and start without looking?  Do you say to yourself, if someone hits me they'll go to jail, because that's what the law says, so i don't have to worry?  I'd guess that you don't.  I'd guess that you look both ways, and manage your own safety, because ultimately, both you and the cars have to be safe for you to be safe.

Product support works in a similar way.  If the company doesn't know about your problem, it will be hard for them to fix it.  You have the responsibility of telling them the problem exists, and helping them to resolve it by providing the information they need.  Practically, they can't know your problem (will you step off the curb without thinking?) until they see your problem, and then there are lots of things which will control how they react (break, swerve, hit you).  Lousy support companies, will figuratively hit you.  Mediocre companys may break (start to provide service), and then swerve (pass on helping you out).  Good service companies will slow even more (diagose and fix the problem without affecting others by swerving), or even stop (completely halt everything to address your needs).

Apple will take care of you I would guess.  But only if they truely understand the problem.  It doesn't matter what the problem is, if they can't reproduce it, they can understand how to fix it, and they surely can't better their test environment to avoid that problem in the future.

If you just want to hate on Apple, go for it.  Given them **** and don't give up.  See how fast that makes your problem go away.  Let us know how that works for you, okay?

On Airplay device make sure Fat Channel Intolerant is Disabled. 

Turn down Roaming Aggressiveness on your wirless adapter till the dropouts stop

Turn down your transmit power (Adapter advance settings)  Go for a medium setting which will cover most in house location scenarios. You may need to turn it up if you take your wireless device outside.

Also, though not so prevalent for most modern (post 2010) devices, Check your hardware buses are not set to turn off power when not needed.  (On your adapter this will be listed under Power Management Tab. If they are and a connection drops, the bus will go off and you cannot reconnect until reboot. (or connection refresh on some systems).

If your adapter has a Ad Hoc Power Management setting in Advanced section of Adapter properties set it to Disabled.

If some dropping out still occurs at what you consider to be optimal settings then select a different channel for your router.  A good way to check is to turn the Roaming Aggressiveness right up.  Open Networking and see how many connections locally (yours and neighbours are found).  Turn down Aggressiveness.  If still the same, then you are probably all on the same channel - Move channel and recheck.

Let me know how you all get on.

gphonei wrote:

 

torndownunit wrote:

 

There is a common sense aspect here.   If a network 'just works' with every single other device you run on it, and worked with Snow Leopard, there is SOME kind of Lion issue going on. The simple fact is the average user should not have to be spending days resolving a problem like this. Even those of us who have used Macs for 15+years are having major issues with this, what is the average consumer going to do?  Yes, I was able to fix my problem.  But it was just as much luck and perseverance.  I went through hoops I should have never had to go through on a brand new machine with a fresh install of the OS.

 

Yes, millions of people are running Lion with no problems.  But I am reading more and more about this issue not just on here, but on other forums I use.  So while it's not happening to everyone, it is happening with a lot of people. There are a lot of people who will never join a discussion like this either.  They will keep taking their machine to the Genius Bar over and over again getting no real resolution.  People in these threads have had replacement machines and still had the problem.  I have run into people who actually think this is just 'a problem with Macs' and are living with it.   They shouldn't be, but they also shouldn't have to ever deal with this nonsense in the first place.

Which would you rather do, spend a week to work through the various pieces of data, and report to Apple what needs to be fixed, or wait 6 months for them to decide what the problem might be (I'd guess no one at Apple is having this problem, and it did not appear in their testing of Lion)?

 

Saying you're not responsible, is a cop out.  If you want your world to be a healthy productive community, then you need to participate in it.  The price you paid for your equipment includes support, so you have every right to demand Apple fix the problem.  However, it is in your own very best interest to be a part of the solution, no matter how much you think the price you paid is actually worth to you.

 

If you are standing at a busy intersection as a pedestrian, and the walk light turns green, do you step off the curb and start without looking?  Do you say to yourself, if someone hits me they'll go to jail, because that's what the law says, so i don't have to worry?  I'd guess that you don't.  I'd guess that you look both ways, and manage your own safety, because ultimately, both you and the cars have to be safe for you to be safe.

 

Product support works in a similar way.  If the company doesn't know about your problem, it will be hard for them to fix it.  You have the responsibility of telling them the problem exists, and helping them to resolve it by providing the information they need.  Practically, they can't know your problem (will you step off the curb without thinking?) until they see your problem, and then there are lots of things which will control how they react (break, swerve, hit you).  Lousy support companies, will figuratively hit you.  Mediocre companys may break (start to provide service), and then swerve (pass on helping you out).  Good service companies will slow even more (diagose and fix the problem without affecting others by swerving), or even stop (completely halt everything to address your needs).

 

Apple will take care of you I would guess.  But only if they truely understand the problem.  It doesn't matter what the problem is, if they can't reproduce it, they can understand how to fix it, and they surely can't better their test environment to avoid that problem in the future.

 

If you just want to hate on Apple, go for it.  Given them **** and don't give up.  See how fast that makes your problem go away.  Let us know how that works for you, okay?

Sorry man, I just can't agree with you.   I am not trying to debate you on the issue.  I have reported my problem.   I don't feel it's my responsibilty to 'upgrade' my network hardware, which works perfectly fine.  Bottom line for me.  No one should have to be buying new routers as the only solution to this problem.

torndownunit wrote:

 

Sorry man, I just can't agree with you.   I am not trying to debate you on the issue.  I have reported my problem.   I don't feel it's my responsibilty to 'upgrade' my network hardware, which works perfectly fine.  Bottom line for me.  No one should have to be buying new routers as the only solution to this problem.

No, i am not saying buy a router.  I'm saying, talk to Apple, tell them there is a problem, 100 times, if that's what it takes.

Support effort is based on the count of incedences, severity of effect on customers and other statistics.  If everyone, collectively doesn't push this issue to the tipping point, the support machinery is not going to "expose" the problem.

I believe that the problem is exposed.  I believe that Apple is trying to solve the problem.  It appears that at least some types of issues have been recognized, but not fixed effectively.  So, those with a problem still have issues to deal with.

It's not over with yet.  Everyone still needs to call Apple.  But, it would be helpful to talk intelligently to them, and explain everything you've tried, repeatedly if necessary.  I think a lot of people are doing this, exactly.

Some, are finding solutions by adjusting their settings and spending no money.  What is not happening, is "diagnosis" of the root cause, so that this forum has precise steps to try to focus on which form of the problem you have.

The previous post with information on power management settings is a great example of things to try!