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  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1

    pookyba wrote:

    This is the first time I have been disappointed by Apple. I think everyone is looking for a solution to fix their WIFI to work normally until Apple fix bug? Also this is not the first time that Apple has made ​​a mistake with WiFi, this is also happened in 10.6, 10.7 and now again in 10.8 version. I am not paid to help Apple find there bugs and I just share my solution to temp. fix this problem. Also I'm really sorry that apple footsteps of Microsoft

     

    I can confirm that kext from SE 10.6.3 work perfect ! I use it about 6h without single drops

    So can  you point out which piece of software or hardware is at fault?  How can you be so sure that only Apple has a part in your problem?

     

    Based on your logic, if my car doesn't start, I can say that my car dealer sold me junk.  Whether I have gas, someone removed the ignition module, the spark plugs or something else, could not be part of the problem?

     

    I really am saddened by the thought that people are so short sighted in their analysis skills that they can draw such amazingly unsubstantiated conclusions from such a small amount of actual fact.

  • Augend Level 1 Level 1

    Let's assume Mr X is an Apple expert in charge of fixing a bug. The bug is this: Quicktime crashes when opening a specific file named "A".  What Mr X will do?  simply opens file "A" by QuickTime and starts debugging.

    But what can Mr X do for this problem ?  he must come to your home and tests all your MB + modem+Network !!

    That's obvious this problem is not easy for Mr X to solve as he has no definite idea about it ( look at the huge number of solutions proposed as just trial and errors!)

    Instead of arguing on different symptoms, let's make a clear picture of the problem for Mr X !!

     

    For example you are sure that downgrading kext will solve anything, but it didn't work for me when tried it last year. instead I changed my ISP and no problem during last whole year, but I daren't telling others to do that.  in fact each one of us has seen just one small piece of the problem, not the whole . I never tell others to change their ISP unless they are sure about that, because I know I have reached it as a trial, not as a scientific fact. This is the case for downgrading or any other solutions.

  • gsspike Level 1 Level 1

      Apple sells 3 million+ ML upgrades.  Suddenly and and at the same time 100K macs start dropping wifi and each have all different issues leading to the same out come, dropped wifi.  So to Deny ML has anything to do with it is absolutely ridiculous.   No one here needs a Masters Degrree to see ML is the common link.

     

    Those issues might not be caused by ML but it has caused those presumed left behind macs to eventually drop wifi.  Finding out what part of ML helped bring those issues to the front hopefully will lead us to update/fix what ever each of our mac's problems are.

     

    I'll say it again Apple does read our post.  They told me that's why they called me. 

  • pookyba Level 1 Level 1

    gphonei wrote:

     

    pookyba wrote:

    This is the first time I have been disappointed by Apple. I think everyone is looking for a solution to fix their WIFI to work normally until Apple fix bug? Also this is not the first time that Apple has made ​​a mistake with WiFi, this is also happened in 10.6, 10.7 and now again in 10.8 version. I am not paid to help Apple find there bugs and I just share my solution to temp. fix this problem. Also I'm really sorry that apple footsteps of Microsoft

     

    I can confirm that kext from SE 10.6.3 work perfect ! I use it about 6h without single drops

    So can  you point out which piece of software or hardware is at fault?  How can you be so sure that only Apple has a part in your problem?

     

    Based on your logic, if my car doesn't start, I can say that my car dealer sold me junk.  Whether I have gas, someone removed the ignition module, the spark plugs or something else, could not be part of the problem?

     

    I really am saddened by the thought that people are so short sighted in their analysis skills that they can draw such amazingly unsubstantiated conclusions from such a small amount of actual fact.

     

    "So can  you point out which piece of software or hardware is at fault?  How can you be so sure that only Apple has a part in your problem?"

    For answer on this qustion you must ask Apple, but Im sure that is Apple part of problem coz I buy ML not Windows 8 so I can't say MS is part of problem if I buy it from Apple ?!?

     

    "Based on your logic, if my car doesn't start, I can say that my car dealer sold me junk."

    Yes if you buy new car. In this case ML is new version of Mac OS.

     

    "I really am saddened by the thought that people are so short sighted in their analysis skills that they can draw such amazingly unsubstantiated conclusions from such a small amount of actual fact."

    Trust me I have a lot of experience in the development and I'm not the average user of software.

    Would not that someone misunderstands, I use Macintosh since 1995, today i use most of Apple product and Im happy with it!

     


  • gsspike Level 1 Level 1

      Knowing that Apple reads these post eventually some one in upper Management will read posts like this

    "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM" or it's not ML's fault, written by experts on these threads.  So when he is going over the books for the end of the quarter he realizes his department is spending thousands hours fixing a wifi issue that only by coincident started happening after ML was installed.  So he shuts down all research and tech support relating to any Wifi issues.  That's what MS would do so why not Apple.


  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1

    pookyba wrote:

     

    gphonei wrote:

    "So can  you point out which piece of software or hardware is at fault?  How can you be so sure that only Apple has a part in your problem?"

     

    For answer on this qustion you must ask Apple, but Im sure that is Apple part of problem coz I buy ML not Windows 8 so I can't say MS is part of problem if I buy it from Apple ?!?

    You're missing the point.  Just because you buy something with a label of it's compatibility, on it, unless you can "test" the exact details of that Labeling, to prove that it is "correct", you can not "say" that one product is any "more correctly implemented" than the other.

     

    Just because all the stuff you have works together (except for your macbook), doesn't mean that all that stuff is meeting all standards associated with the technologies that it is labeled with.  All of the other stuff can be, simply, incompatibly, compatible. 

     

    I'm asking you, to think about this pragmatically.  If you look at Auden's reported problem, it was his ISP that was creating the problem.  They had an incompatible, broken system, which windows and everything else was tolerating, because they were not using advanced feataures.  But, Auden's macbook was using advanced features that were not correctly working, due to details of the ISPs equipment.

     

    Until you can eliminate every single thing else, by testing and thus proving correct implementations, selecting some part of the system to "blame", is just not productive, nor correct, and will put you in a position to continue to suffer, because you are not "fixing" the real problem.

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1

    gsspike wrote:

     

      Knowing that Apple reads these post eventually some one in upper Management will read posts like this

    "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM" or it's not ML's fault, written by experts on these threads.  So when he is going over the books for the end of the quarter he realizes his department is spending thousands hours fixing a wifi issue that only by coincident started happening after ML was installed.  So he shuts down all research and tech support relating to any Wifi issues.  That's what MS would do so why not Apple.


    I think your viewpoint is not in line with out business at Apple operates.  Apple is trying to find "the problem", but there is no such "the problem".  Instead, there are thousands of problems, with all different causes.  They vest themselves to the users, as "You are not connected to the internet".  People using WiFi technologies for networking, will thus decide that there WiFi is failing.

     

    This is "the problem".  Apple's indication to the user that they are not connected to the internet doesn't say "why".

     

    So, people are here, looking for a "solution".  They see many people going on and on about how it's all Apple's fault and that it's been going on for a year and that it's a terrible thing that Apple is not fixing their problem.

     

    Yet, we see cases like the recent report by Augend that have absolutely found the cause of their problem, and fixed it by switching ISPs, not by "replacing their router", "switching out the driver to the Snow Leopard driver" or any of the other "fixes".  Then, MacsSa also talks about his problem, and I got some information from him about the nature of his problem, and pointed out some details that made it sound like an ISP issue too.

     

    He switched "ISPs" and found that his problems disappeared.

     

    What needs to happen, is that people need to understand that if they are ignorant of how WiFi works vs how all the network protocols flow across a network connection, they may not understand where the problem they are having is actually at.

     

    Yes, there may be something, in software, that Apple needs to "fix".  But, not every single network problem you have with a WiFi networking setup is going to be "the problem Apple needs to fix".

     

    In many cases, it's clear that people have issues that they themselves need to fix.

  • jrpeterson5 Level 1 Level 1

    I have a late 2009 iMac and an 2011 MacBook Air.  Here are the following setups:

     

    iMac with three partitions:  Snow Leopard, Lion, Mountain Lion.  Netgear router.  ISP X.  Drops wi-fi constantly in Lion and Mountain Lion, never once in Snow Leopard.  Take the same iMac to my office with ISP Y and D-Link router - same problems - drops wi-fi constantly in Lion and Mountain Lion, never in Snow Leopard.  Also tried the above setups with an Apple Extreme Base Station at home and at work with ISP X and Y - same results.

     

    MacBook Air running Bootcamp:  Running Lion up until a few weeks ago updated to Mountain Lion after that, also running Windows 7 Pro.  At home with ISP X and Netgear router - WiFi dropped constantly in Lion and continues to with Mountain Lion.  No drops since installing Windows 7 Pro with the help of Bootcamp.  Same computer and setup at work with ISP Y and D-Link router - same problem - drops with Mountain Lion, and solid with Windows 7 Pro (never tried Lion before upgrading).  Also tried the above setups with AEBS at home and at work with ISP X and Y - same results.

     

    Snow Leopard and Windows 7 Pro are solid on ISP X and Y with Netgear, D-Link, and AEBS.  Lion and Mountain Lion constantly and 'reliably' drop wifi (exactly at 5 minutes of connectivity) on ISP X and Y with Netgear, D-Link, and AEBS.  This is a grand total of 15+ different trials.


    Call it what it is.  Let the lashing begin.....I'm sure it's something I am doing. 

  • Augend Level 1 Level 1

    Dear jrpeterson5,     What you stated can be very helpful for illustrating the whole scheme of the problem.

    Can you compare the ping results between these OSs while disconnection occures , please?

    Please report the result of ping yahoo.com or google.com.

    I think it is a very good footstep to start a systematic investigation.

    Thanks

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1

    jrpeterson5 wrote:

     

    Snow Leopard and Windows 7 Pro are solid on ISP X and Y with Netgear, D-Link, and AEBS.  Lion and Mountain Lion constantly and 'reliably' drop wifi (exactly at 5 minutes of connectivity) on ISP X and Y with Netgear, D-Link, and AEBS.  This is a grand total of 15+ different trials.


    Call it what it is.  Let the lashing begin.....I'm sure it's something I am doing. 

     

    Look at your WiFi settings on your router and report what the DHCP lease time is.

     

    Also look at System Preferences->Energy Saver.  Make sure the Tab is set to Battery or Power Adapter, however you are using your computer when the failure occurs.  What is the Computer sleep timeout value?

     

    When the connection has failed, what do you see?  Does your browser just say "You are not connected to the internet"?  Does your WiFi/Airport Icon show a connection (bars black) or no connection (bars gray)?

     

    If your WiFi shows a connection, go to Applications->Utiltiies and run the Terminal App.  In the window that opens, type "ping -c 4 8.8.8.8" and hit return.  Tell us what the result of that ping is.

  • maurofromparma Level 1 Level 1

    Sorry guys. This is where I get frustrated and speechless. I am a dummy user and I can follow jrpeterson5 reasoning, it is my case too. But why am I supposed to ping or do other things I am not aware of :-)?? I only know that after leaving snow leopard my wi-fi has been a disaster only with my iMac. iPad, IPhone and pc are working wonderfully. I have tried all the solutions posted here and I cannot change ISP Provider for the next 11 months (I have a contract, to break it would cost too much). It is now 2 years I am having this nightmare. And now my AppleCare insurance ends in 2 weeks. I cannot spend hours on the phone with apple as i work during the week and at weekends there is no service...

    Honestly it does not seem normal to me!

  • gsspike Level 1 Level 1

    Why Do you think I don't believe Apple is working on this? 

    I'm the one telling the non believers APPLE is working hard on this problem and I have first hand experience.  I also NEVER said Apple has stopped working on the issues.  It was just a response to your no issue comments like "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM"Not a useful statement to anyone here especially Apple.

     

    I'm on Apples side and Yes it's probably somethings on certain computers for what ever reason. 

     

    There are two things in common with us here:

     

    1: We do know for a fact All these different symptoms surfaced after installing L/ML.

    2: We all lose wifi

     

    I LIKE YOU FEEL that something on our macs whether dormant or not was brought to the surface with a final out come, Dropped wifi.

     

     

    So instead of misunderstand what I write try to understand it.  I don't know maybe you just feel the need to show everybody that you are so much smarter than me exposing you insecurities.  

    Hopefully you don't work for Apple.  Everyone I have ever dealt with at Apple over the years have been respectful,  listen to and try to understand my issue and opinions, never saying this is a  useful comment and this is not, never trying to show how much smarter they were than me, even if they were.  Because if you do it would be putting me on the verge of negating those good feelings I have for Apple.  Making me feel embarrassed for Apple.

     

    I've reached the conclusion that if a post comes from me You just go into attach mode!

    You refuse to see we agree on most things my major issue has been, "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM"  I feel we should all tell our selves that over and over again every time we need to reboot.

     

    This is how I take your statements! 

     

    Everyone has cancer cells in their body's.

    You have 30 people

    20 get lung cancer

    17 of those smoked cigarets

    1 patient that didn't smoke say's, "You can't blame the cigarets for your lung cancer just because it made it surface", it was the way your dormant cancer cells reacted to the cigarets that gave you cancer "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM".

    Hopefully you don't really feel that way it's just how you express your self.

     

    So again for the record I support Apple. The way they jumped on finding an it right away looking for an issue is impressive!  I'm beyond impressed that they take the first step in contacting just regular users to ask questions and have you run test for them on your mac while never trying to prove there knowledge by being condescending. I have posted useful info and asked useful questions I can't make that any clearer for you.  This thread is only one of many.

     

    So enough already lay off me if you are so blind you can't see I agree with much of what you are downing me for.     I might have responded first so I'll be the first to say enough.  I'm canceling  notifications from this thread.  Like I said earlier there are many threads on this subject and I recommend to other posters find one of those more useful and helpful threads with many helpful people there, with no one deeming you as useful or not useful.  All of you don't deserve this treatment.

     

    Bye all this thread has be deemed "not useful and definatly not helpful". lol

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1

    gsspike wrote:

     

    Why Do you think I don't believe Apple is working on this? 

     

    I've reached the conclusion that if a post comes from me You just go into attach mode!

    You refuse to see we agree on most things my major issue has been, "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM"  I feel we should all tell our selves that over and over again every time we need to reboot.

     

    This is how I take your statements! 

     

    Everyone has cancer cells in their body's.

     

    Hopefully you don't really feel that way it's just how you express your self.

     

    So enough already lay off me if you are so blind you can't see I agree with much of what you are downing me for.     I might have responded first so I'll be the first to say enough.  I'm canceling  notifications from this thread.  Like I said earlier there are many threads on this subject and I recommend to other posters find one of those more useful and helpful threads with many helpful people there, with no one deeming you as useful or not useful.  All of you don't deserve this treatment.

     

    Bye all this thread has be deemed "not useful and definatly not helpful". lol

    Okay, I applogize for making you feel this way, I had no intent in doing that. I think that we are experiencing some kind of language barrier where your use of english is not communicating, to me, what you want to say.  And I think that you are putting to much "he is talking about me" into what I've said, instead of saying "he's illustrating how he sees what is going on".

     

    I want people to have this problem solved.

     

    I want to help people by getting them to do the things I ask so that we can adequately go through all the technical issues to arrive at what is really wrong!

     

    People don't seem to have the time or desire to actually do that, and instead want to ask why Apple isn't solving their problem, but still don't have time to talk to Apple either.

     

    I've tried repeated to say "THIS IS NOT ONE PROBLEM" and "THIS IS NOT EASY TO SOLVE".

     

    It pains me that people think that there is no advantage to spending time to solve this problem, but have plenty of time to get on the forums and complain.

  • gphonei Level 1 Level 1

    maurofromparma wrote:

     

    Sorry guys. This is where I get frustrated and speechless. I am a dummy user and I can follow jrpeterson5 reasoning, it is my case too. But why am I supposed to ping or do other things I am not aware of :-)?? I only know that after leaving snow leopard my wi-fi has been a disaster only with my iMac. iPad, IPhone and pc are working wonderfully. I have tried all the solutions posted here and I cannot change ISP Provider for the next 11 months (I have a contract, to break it would cost too much). It is now 2 years I am having this nightmare. And now my AppleCare insurance ends in 2 weeks. I cannot spend hours on the phone with apple as i work during the week and at weekends there is no service...

    Honestly it does not seem normal to me!

    If your car stops working, under warrenty, or not, do you not take it in to be serviced, and deal with the expense and time to do that, as part of the "deal" in owning a "car"?  Sure you'd like to not have to do that, and for your computer, you'd like for someone to just "fix it" for you.  But, because this problem is not "broken hardware", or even, perhaps "just" broken software, you are not really going to have the luxury of getting if fixed without putting forth the effort to try and "find the problem".   It seems like a hassle, but I just don't know what else to tell you will work.  You can spend your time "waiting", or spend your time "finding the problem".  Which will be more productive, and perhaps solve the problem faster?  It doesn't seem to me, that "waiting for Apple to solve the problem" is likely to be very timely.

  • William Kucharski Level 6 Level 6
    expertise.macosx
    Mac OS X

    pookyba wrote:

     

    This is the first time I have been disappointed by Apple. I think everyone is looking for a solution to fix their WIFI to work normally until Apple fix bug? Also this is not the first time that Apple has made ​​a mistake with WiFi, this is also happened in 10.6, 10.7 and now again in 10.8 version. I am not paid to help Apple find there bugs and I just share my solution to temp. fix this problem. Also I'm really sorry that apple footsteps of Microsoft

     

    I can confirm that kext from SE 10.6.3 work perfect ! I use it about 6h without single drops

     

    The problem is for the vast majority of Apple customers, Wi-Fi works beautifully.

     

    The issue is where the problem lies among those who are having issues, which is actually quite complex.