This has to be the most ******** thing I've ever seen. Only certain keys that apple has deemed repeat-worthy repeat when you hold them down. As someone who supports unix systems and is in VI a LOT, this is simply unacceptable! Make it a configuration option!
After further review, I like this alternate-character feature.
The lack of a Delete key is unforgivable, though, and that's after a decade of use... all day, every day. Just plain stupid.
No key repeat setting in a logical place. No scroll lock. No delete key. No print-screen... Yes. Apple surely has cornered ease-of-use.
&E; wrote:
No key repeat setting in a logical place. No scroll lock. No delete key. No print-screen... Yes. Apple surely has cornered ease-of-use.
What does scroll lock do?
I've got a delete key. It's at the top, right of the keyboard.
I don't know of any current OS that actually prints the screen--not much use for that.
Never knew what the Scroll Lock did. Never seen it used in 25 years.
On modern systems, Print Screen copies the screen to the clipboard. Useful for experienced people and novices alike.
"I've got a delete key. It's at the top, right of the keyboard."
OK, are you playing dumb? I think you know that on a Mac laptop or small keyboard, this is actually a Backspace key. Mac laptops don't have real Delete keys.
Stokestack wrote:
Never knew what the Scroll Lock did. Never seen it used in 25 years.
On modern systems, Print Screen copies the screen to the clipboard. Useful for experienced people and novices alike.
Perhaps &E; doesn't know how to hold down cmd-shift-[ctrl]-3 or 4.
OK, are you playing dumb? I think you know that on a Mac laptop or small keyboard, this is actually a Backspace key. Mac laptops don't have real Delete keys.
Mine has worked as a delete key for 27 years. It deletes what is selected or what is behind the cursor.
No, I learned to hold down those three keys, but only after a few Google searches revealed how to do in a clumsy step what is readily grokked in only a cursory glance at a Windows machine.
(You have no idea what the difference is between a DELETE key and a BACKSPACE key. That's not helpful. I will give you a piece of advice... when you find yourself using your machine for more than YouTubing, you can emulate the actions of the DELETE key by holding down the Fn key and smacking the BACKSPACE key -- the one that is mistakenly labeled "delete".)
Saying you don't know what the scroll lock key does is not contributing, either. I'm still looking for how to toggle this -- if it's possible. If you happen to know, that would be amazing. Amazing, appreciated, and quite unexpected.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Perhaps &E; doesn't know how to hold down cmd-shift-[ctrl]-3 or 4.
And why would anyone know that, since it's not marked on the keyboard? What a ridiculous retort (and typical for Apple apologists in regard to missing UI elements).
Mine has worked as a delete key for 27 years. It deletes what is selected or what is behind the cursor.
Yeah, that's a Backspace key. A Delete key deletes what's in front of the cursor, so you don't have to arrow across the text and then backspace over it (cue the apologist's retort about an unmarked, two-handed workaround...).
&E; wrote:
Saying you don't know what the scroll lock key does is not contributing, either. I'm still looking for how to toggle this -- if it's possible. If you happen to know, that would be amazing. Amazing, appreciated, and quite unexpected.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Help in doing what? Insulting people? You seem to be handling that pretty well on your own.
OK, I finally bothered to look this up:
"When the Scroll Lock mode was on, the arrow keys would scroll the contents of a text window instead of moving the cursor."
I can see how this would be useful. Is there even a Mac equivalent to this?
The lack of a Delete key is pretty insufferable. Apple has been called out on this again and again. There is really no excuse, since they could've easily put Delete where the Eject key is and made Eject a secondary function on another key.
Even dumber is that Apple put a hardware delay on the Eject key to prevent... what, all the fatal accidents involving disc ejections? If this was such a problem, they had even more of a reason to put Eject on another key as a secondary function. Instead, they devote an entire key to it (despite Apple's early recognition of the death of physical media), and cripple that key so it can't be remapped to do something else. ELEGANT.
Flummoxed, I am. I came here because a search brought me here when I couldn't figure out why there was no key-repeat setting (that worked) in the systems prefs. But, lordy, I should have known it was a setup for me to feel bad about my shortcomings for not intuiting an obscure command-line "solution" to the problem. I run into one of the dime-a-dozen Apple fanboys who decides that since I can't do something on my MacBook, I should probably not want to be able to do it. So you have folks who are looking to make Apple products better, and you have folks who want to dumb down the users of those products...
I offer my most sincere apologies if the frustration I feel after having to spend time Googling for an answer to a simple question and coming up with absurd solutions manifests itself as less than affable responses to less-than-helpful non-suggestions.
&E; wrote:
No, I learned to hold down those three keys, but only after a few Google searches revealed how to do in a clumsy step what is readily grokked in only a cursory glance at a Windows machine.
How do you select only a portion of the screen with that Print Screen thingy? I really would like to know since I have to use Windows at work and rarely need the entire screen or window.
(You have no idea what the difference is between a DELETE key and a BACKSPACE key. That's not helpful. I will give you a piece of advice... when you find yourself using your machine for more than YouTubing, you can emulate the actions of the DELETE key by holding down the Fn key and smacking the BACKSPACE key -- the one that is mistakenly labeled "delete".)
You've just grown up with a different definition of what a delete key is. Why would I want to reposition the cursor back so that I can delete forward? If I've just typed something and want to delete it, I'd have to move the cursor backwords so I can delete forward...That makes sense to you? And, yes, if you want to delete forward, you just hold down the fn key.
Saying you don't know what the scroll lock key does is not contributing, either. I'm still looking for how to toggle this -- if it's possible. If you happen to know, that would be amazing. Amazing, appreciated, and quite unexpected.
If we don't know what it is supposed to do, there's no way we can explain how to replicate the behavior. What is it you want to happen that Scroll Lock provides?
PicsAhoy wrote:
OK, I finally bothered to look this up:
"When the Scroll Lock mode was on, the arrow keys would scroll the contents of a text window instead of moving the cursor."
Fn+up/down arrow. But, it must have more to it than that.
Barney-15E wrote:
How do you select only a portion of the screen with that Print Screen thingy? I really would like to know since I have to use Windows at work and rarely need the entire screen or window.
Since you're using the keyboard, there's obviously a limit to how specific you can get. If you press Ctrl-Alt-PrtScrn, you get only the current window.
Beyond that, you're going to be pasting from the clipboard into some application to save it, mail it, or print it, so it's possible that this application will have at least some crude cropping tool. Unfortunately, Windows doesn't come with a Grab equivalent.
Why would I want to reposition the cursor back so that I can delete forward?
You tell us. Why wouldn't you just use the Backspace key? Again, why pretend to miss the point? That's why you need both a Backspace key and a Delete key; easy, one-key character removal in either direction. Even the smallest non-Apple laptops manage to provide this.
If we don't know what it is supposed to do, there's no way we can explain how to replicate the behavior. What is it you want to happen that Scroll Lock provides?
We do know what it's supposed to do; the guy just posted it above, which you quoted right after this statement. So why say this?
You tell us. Why wouldn't you just use the Backspace key? Again, why pretend to miss the point? That's why you need both a Backspace key and a Delete key; easy, one-key character removal in either direction. Even the smallest non-Apple laptops manage to provide this.
I'm purposely showing that there is two ways to think about the issue. Which one is "correct" depends on how you learned to use a computer. You want a forward delete because that's what you learned. I rarely need a forward delete because that is what I learned. You can have your forward delete, just hold down the fn key when you hit delete key. Why cram the keyboard with extra keys when you can put multiple, similar behaviors on the same key.
We do know what it's supposed to do; the guy just posted it above, which you quoted right after this statement. So why say this?
Because he posted it after I posted. I edited my post to include the information.
Also, I think starting with Vista, Windows includes a grab-like tool. It's in the Accessories. Snipping Tool or something like that.
As has been pointed out, there's no need for even one extra key on the keyboard. Apple loves to extol the death of physical media, so devoting a key to ejecting it is dumb. Make that key a Delete key. You're arguing for less functionality for no reason. The unmarked, two-handed hotkey is a cumbersome and undiscoverable solution compared to a single clearly marked key, which 95% of computers around the world offer regardless of size.
Anyone who edits text benefits from the ability to delete in both directions. Apple argued for years that a two-button mouse was too scary, complicated, and unnecessary for its customers, and now Apple not only promotes an array of unmarked multi-fingered "gestures", but even offers a mouse that interprets them. Some might call that hypocrisy. Some might call it a willingness to learn.
It's time to learn the utility of a proper Delete key and act upon it. Apple has been taken to task on this issue for years. Here's an example; see #9:
Also on this list: the Mac OS's inability to resize windows from their edges. That was finally fixed in Lion, after what, 25 years? Maybe we'll get a Delete key before Apple gets out of the computer business entirely.
Thanks for the info about the Windows Grab-type tool. I'll take a look at Windows 7 for it.
i bought a Microsoft USB keyboard and use a logitech mouse, i have backspace and delete (but delete doesn't delete a file from the computer itself, it only works when typing) and they work just fine.
using the logitech mouse, i can set the left button as a primary button and the right button as a secondary button.
simple as that. sometimes you just have to think outside the box. I've been unsuccessful in remapping any of the keys on the keyboard to be able to manually delete files from the computer.
Seriously no key repeat in Lion?
