Does anyone recommend OS X Lion?

Bob Jacobson wrote:

For $30, you get what you pay for (although I paid less for Snow Leopard, if I recall).

I am pretty sure we didn't. In US it was the same price of Lion, $29.99. Actually SL was more expensive in Euro, 29.99 euro vs the 23.99 of Lion. With SL I paid more to get more troubles. And I still do now. When I boot it, it seems to be in south California. Beach Volley tournaments all time!

Dr.Head wrote:

No, I mean Lion. Spell Check and Dictionary worked better in Snow Leopard.

I don't know about Dictionary because I don't use it.

The spell check here on the forums has nothing to do with Lion; it is part of the forums. You will see the same thing if you log in here in Windows using IE.

Kittenmommy wrote:

I ran Onyx and it's still doing it. Preview absolutely will not let me change the default "save" location from the Pictures folder. Also, Skim will not open documents created by Image Capture, so I'm still stuck using Preview.

Ok, I have looked a little bit around with Terminal. I think the settings are not located in the usual .plist file I suggested, but in one on this folder:

~/Library/Containers/com.apple.Preview

Just trash the whole folder (with Preview closed). Don't worry, the worst it can happen is that Preview will clean the history and reset your preference settings . Which is what you want to achieve after all.And then it will be recreated.

So basically, if one wants to get a rid fo all Versions in a system(for example for privacy issues) s/he must know the administrator password and delete that Folder. It's probably better to do it via Terminal with the command:

rm -rf /.DocumentRevisions-V100

Michel, you can't delete that folder with that command. Not even with sudo.

softwater wrote:

rm -rf /.DocumentRevisions-V100

Michel, you can't delete that folder with that command. Not even with sudo.

No, it is possible with sudo, but double checking it, it's better if people unexperienced with Terminal leaves it alone. The way it gets recreated, if it gets recreated is not very clear. One should first reboot, but still I've found myself unable to save any file anymore. Well, I fixed it in a couple of minutes (basically I recreated the folder as root and then saved a document. The folder got renamed in /.DocumentRevisions-V100-bad-1 and a clean one has been created). But as you may see this is too messy if people don't know where to put their hands.

I suspect that the best option would be to link one or more files or folders to /dev/null, but that must be investigated and it would only achieve to lose the Versions files. It wouldnt change the UI back to the old one at all.

Just forget about it, or if you wanna test it do it at your own risk (standard disclaimer. Fortunately I forgot to mention sudo before).

Michelasso wrote:

No, it is possible with sudo,

Then you must have already changed the permissions. I messed around with this a lot in the early days on two different test installations of Lion and found that even sudo doesn't give root permissions to delete DocumentRevisions-V100 unless you first change them to 'read and write'.

One should first reboot, but still I've found myself unable to save any file anymore. Well, I fixed it in a couple of minutes (basically I recreated the folder as root and then saved a document.

Yes, you cannot save Versions once you delete that folder. Lion will recreate that folder when Versions daily backup cycle comes around (approx. 24 hrs..!) and if you've messed with the previous folder (rather than deleted it), it will simply leave the old one in place but mark it as 'bad' (i.e., you won't be able to access it).

I went in out and tried everything I could think of on this folder in the first few weeks of Lion trying to get Versions to behave itself, but its built too deep into the OS. The best (or worst, depending on your POV!) you can do is follow the procedure here

http://applehelpwriter.com/2011/09/16/taming-versions-sort-of/

and implement Yvan's script given at the end so that /.DocumentRevisions-V100 gets deleted and recreated each time you boot.

This should stop Lion keeping loads of unwanted and potentially dangerous/confidential junk on your machine (though of course its still retreivable with some know-how less you do the 'seven-overwrite' delete in Disk Utility). However, it won't stop Versions beach-balling you if you're working on large files with a multitude of minor changes. That's what Apple need to address in an update before long, or face increasing backlash from users of QXP, InDesign, FCP X and other file-heavy programs.

softwater wrote:

Michelasso wrote:

No, it is possible with sudo,

Then you must have already changed the permissions. I messed around with this a lot in the early days on two different test installations of Lion and found that even sudo doesn't give root permissions to delete DocumentRevisions-V100 unless you first change them to 'read and write'.

Nope, I never touched it before.. Did you notice the "f" in the "-rf" option? That forces it. 🙂

With sudo you're root. Hence you are God. Everything is allowed.

Yes, Michel, I know the command well.

It doesn't force it, not even for root (at least it didn't on my two test systems until I changed the permissions manually), and unless you tell me you've actually done it and seen it that way, I don't believe it would on yours either...so, have you actually done it this way, or are you just talking about what you think should happen...?

softwater wrote:

This should stop Lion keeping loads of unwanted and potentially dangerous/confidential junk on your machine (though of course its still retreivable with some know-how less you do the 'seven-overwrite' delete in Disk Utility). However, it won't stop Versions beach-balling you if you're working on large files with a multitude of minor changes. That's what Apple need to address in an update before long, or face increasing backlash from users of QXP, InDesign, FCP X and other file-heavy programs.

I tried few things now. The safest thing one can do is to remove the /.DocumentRevisions-V100/PerUID folder. That gets automatically recreated at the first save. Unfortunately there has been no way to link it to /dev/null. Versions complains and doesn't save.

I agree that with large files (100MB or more) Versions isn't the right solution. Not as it is implemented at least. I thought it was going to save only the changes, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Actually it is probably impossible to implement it like that as a general framework. That job would be delegated to the applications. Aperture might do it (I don't know, I didn't check) but Preview for example makes a new full copy of the images each time. It shouldn't be a major issue with 7200 rpm HDD or even better with SSD. But with a slow drive one will feel it.

I thought it was going to save only the changes, but that doesn't appear to be the case...but Preview for example makes a new full copy of the images each time.

I'm glad you confirmed this. I had a very heated 😠 debate with etresoft about this a month ago or so, and he kept quoting apple documentation at me saying this wasn't true. I kept telling him

Go and LOOK in the DocumentRevisions-V100 folder and see for yourself!

This is also why I asked you whether you'd actually used the sudo force command to delete this folder, rather than just expecting that it would do what you think it would. In my experience it doesn't work...Lion has changed the rules in more ways that one...

softwater wrote:

Yes, Michel, I know the command well.

It doesn't force it, not even for root (at least it didn't on my two test systems until I changed the permissions manually), and unless you tell me you've actually done it and seen it that way, I don't believe it would on yours either...so, have you actually done it this way, or are you just talking about what you think should happen...?

Pfeh.. No trust in this world.. 😝

Here. That's what I did my very first time, after you mentioned sudo:

BlueMoon:Preferences Michele$ sudo -s

Password:

bash-3.2# cd /

bash-3.2# ls

.DS_Store .dbfseventsd Library Users efi net tmp

.DocumentRevisions-V100 .fseventsd MacAppStore Volumes etc opt usr

.Spotlight-V100 .hotfiles.btree Network bin home private var

.Trashes Applications System dev mach_kernel sbin

bash-3.2# rm -rf /.D

.DS_Store .DocumentRevisions-V100/

bash-3.2# rm -rf /.DocumentRevisions-V100/

bash-3.2# ls -l

total 30629

-rw-rw-r-- 1 root admin 24580 27 Set 10:21 .DS_Store

drwx------ 5 root staff 170 14 Set 17:23 .Spotlight-V100

d-wx-wx-wt@ 2 root _unknown 68 25 Set 16:38 .Trashes

srwxrwxrwx 1 root wheel 0 27 Set 14:09 .dbfseventsd

drwx------ 84 root staff 2856 28 Set 12:09 .fseventsd

-rw-------@ 1 root wheel 65536 14 Set 18:52 .hotfiles.btree

drwxrwxr-x+ 84 root admin 2856 27 Set 13:22 Applications

drwxr-xr-x+ 75 root wheel 2550 28 Set 12:08 Library

drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 68 11 Set 01:50 MacAppStore

[...]

Gone!

PS: yes, I checked all files already inside the folder. They just get fully copied.

PPS: I just checked it now: the .DocumentRevisions-V100 folder gets created inside external USB disks/flash keys as well. That really is a confidential leak. I don't know what Apple is thinking.

Pfeh.. No trust in this world.. 😝

Not a lack of trust, Michel, just based on my experience.

I notice you did it differently from that way I did (you invoked Sudo first, rather than just going straight in with the 'sudo rm -rf'. I don't see why that should make a difference...but in any case, I will boot into one of my Lion's and try it again both ways and report back.

Cheers 🙂

Michelasso wrote:

Kittenmommy wrote:

I ran Onyx and it's still doing it. Preview absolutely will not let me change the default "save" location from the Pictures folder. Also, Skim will not open documents created by Image Capture, so I'm still stuck using Preview.

Ok, I have looked a little bit around with Terminal. I think the settings are not located in the usual .plist file I suggested, but in one on this folder:

~/Library/Containers/com.apple.Preview

Just trash the whole folder (with Preview closed). Don't worry, the worst it can happen is that Preview will clean the history and reset your preference settings . Which is what you want to achieve after all.And then it will be recreated.

Tried it. Nope, Preview still defaults to exporting to the Pictures folder. It seems to be unchangeable.

Bob Jacobson wrote:

For $30, you get what you pay for (although I paid less for Snow Leopard, if I recall).

Iam pretty sure we didn't. In US it was the same price of Lion, $29.99.Actually SL was more expensive in Euro, 29.99 euro vs the 23.99 ofLion. With SL I paid more to get more troubles. And I still do now.When I boot it, it seems to be in south California. Beach Volleytournaments all time!

...And I'm pretty sure that you're wrong. I bought a 5-user SL installation disk for $135, which translates to $27.00 an installation. These disks were widely avaialble and very popular. Many sold in the secondary market for $125, reducing the price per installation to $25.

That was before Apple got hip and realized it could rack up additional profits by making it imposisble to economize in this fashion. In the Apple Store, you always pay top dollar.

As a native of Southern California, I'm sorry you don't have access to the beach, volleyball, and surfing. It's a good life for people whose success permits them to afford it. Yours is a poor choice of contrived negative metaphors. Never saw a beachball in my entire time living there.