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  • Whitecity Level 2 Level 2 (340 points)

    As a last ditch attempt you could cut the power to your neighbors house - that would force a restart of their router?

  • Kittenmommy Level 3 Level 3 (645 points)

    Alex Zavatone wrote:


    Just a nice little note that not everyone has access to the router that they use.


    Well, I'd think that if you were updating a computer at work, IT would deal with all that nonsense.  Hopefully.

  • Alex Zavatone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yeah, we tried that in San Diego last week, with stellar results.

  • Alex Zavatone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    True, but yet again, we are mentioning and going to detail about items that require manpower and time.


    This OS update WAS supposed to be an improvement, not a babysitting process, a quest for the magical answer to the mystery problem, nor a complete time sink for users to get back to the level of functionality present in the previous OS.


    I ran in to a medical researcher on the plane on Monday ( who is working on projects in 90 countries to help relieve global suffering.  He had lion on his Mac.


    He simply hates it.


    We pulled all the stops to make sure his battery didn't run out on the flight thanks to Lion's sucking the life out of the laptop's battery while he was working on a research paper.


    The smart thing for Apple would have been to wait at least 6 months to release this load of junk.

  • Dr.Head Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I agree with your two dichotomies and I would add that some people just like it and some people just don't like it.


    I am also concerned about Apple's direction. When the iPad was introduced Jobs said that there were already millions who would know how to use it because of iPod and iPhone. I've read that Lion will attract those iOS users, as well as PC users because of some PC-like features in Lion. This sounds like Apple is going for market share and profit for Apple share holders, at the expense of old school users. A few years from now and/or perhaps by OS10.8 or 10.9 most Mac users will likely be the vast market of the iDevice users. This is worrisome to those of us who have been devoted to Mac and expected OS upgrades to follow in the tradition of past OS X upgrades. The introduction of iOS features is likely a harbinger of things to come, or of things to disappear. How long will it be before there are no “Classic” options? Scrolling, for example, is probably going to sync with iDevices and offer no choice to do it the “old” way. We can only hope that Apple will at some point add options to customize or offer a “pro” version (such as Lion Pro or OS 10.7 Pro) to accommodate those of us who want an OS for work.

  • Alex Zavatone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yep.  It sure looks like they are screwing the install base for the predicted desires of the new iOS user.

  • Kittenmommy Level 3 Level 3 (645 points)

    Alex Zavatone wrote:


    Yep.  It sure looks like they are screwing the install base for the predicted desires of the new iOS user.



  • jmf007 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    honestly its amazing they held it together as long as they did.  now with Steve taking a step back Apple will become even more corporate.  (corps focus on profit generation 1st and quality 2nd...if you are lucky).  Its inevitable.  although with MS, Mac and google, at least you have three people beating each other up and someone will focus on quality first....or possibly a new company.  sometimes evolution *****.  I know i'm in the small group that always has issues with an upgrade, but ti ***** when its actually you.  Its basically been a carbon copy of my old MS experiences.  We are all concerned but lets just hope its a hiccup.  fingures crossed!

  • Michael Ruiz2 Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)

    Yeah, I agree the smart thing to do would not have been for the researcher to invest in a power adapter for the plane ride, but to stop the release of the OS so he wouldn't have to worry about it. Snide comments aside, the point is, despite many examples of Lion's shortcomings, most of this pain could be avoided by a vast majority of the OS X user base.


    There's a few rules to live by with software, I'm sure you know. First, always wait for .1 releases before commiting them to mission critcal applications.(.0 is for suckers and the daring.) Second, No amount of QA in-house makes up for the millions of people that use the first release of new software. And third: if you're not willing to learn how to use your tools or learn what changes are in new versions, you have no business being on the cutting edge.


    OS X is very easy to learn how to manage properly, and anyone who is serious about it, can with an ounce of planning avoid tons of problems. The Windows file exchange problem? Yeah, that's legitimate. WiFi connectivity issues? That's debatable.


    A lot of people here are complaining that Apple is promoting Lion as a simple upgrade. But, anyone with any sense knows not to believe everything they read -- especially marketing material. Do a bit of research before jumping into new software, and prepare for problems using the tips that people have been espousing on this and many threads befroe you update.


    One of my motos is "Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best." That way, no matter where you land in the spectrum of potential outcomes, you'll be better off.

  • Whitecity Level 2 Level 2 (340 points)

    Yep  - the trouble is the potential number of people who might buy a dumbed down version is far larger than the group of people who already buy the sophisticated version. We're just on the wrong side of the numbers. My sense is that as iOS gets dumbed down and panders more and more to the lowest common denominator that there will still be third party app makers who will seek out the niche markets of people who want more flexibility in their workflow. Graphic Converter offering the ability to use Save As still is a good example of this. Open Source software is the other option. I can't see OpenOffice dropping Save As support, and I don't think MS Office is going to any time soon.

  • daverob Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I have had minor but annoying issues with Lion. Computer is running slower. Takes longer to open a file in preview. Cant use Command/Delete shortcut to trash a file. Some image files give a message that I have to ok before they will open. Miss the coloured button indicators. Cant use gestures to go back and forth in open file windows. Not all gestures work as they say they will with my trackpad. Kinda wish I had waited before getting caught up in the hype and downloading this early on.

  • Bob Jacobson Level 1 Level 1 (115 points)
    There's a few rules to live by with software, I'm sure you know. First, always wait for .1 releases before commiting them to mission critcal applications.(.0 is for suckers and the daring.) Second, No amount of QA in-house makes up for the millions of people that use the first release of new software. And third: if you're not willing to learn how to use your tools or learn what changes are in new versions, you have no business being on the cutting edge.


    In general, I don't disagree, but only in the computer industry, built mainly on the backs of its long-suffering, tinker-prone customers could one make an argument like this.  Software for a personal computer is not so complicated that Apple, a company worth more than any other in the world except Exxon, couldn't afford to do it right out of the box. 


    Apple pretty much used to get it right the first time.  I never had an upgrade create as many problems as this one has.  Most created none at all (and I'm talking since 1984, hard disks and floppies and all that).  To have Lion be essentially useless except as a marketing tool turns the knife in the wound.


    As for learing how to use tools, I doubt a whole lot of Apple users don't know how; the tools are quite simple and there are plenty of helps online, from Apple, and in clubs.  However, Apple has started to remove tools or at least, affordances that made the workings of the tools accessible and modifiable.  That's a problem. 


    Lastly, there's no point in learning changes for their own sake, things to do that don't add value, just because an "interaction designer" decides they're trendy or will appeal to potential iPhone and iPad crossovers.  That's not cutting edge, it's nutting edge.

  • Michael Ruiz2 Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)

    Yeah, I can't argue with any of that, Bob. The problem with "doing it right" is that everyone has an opinion on how things should function, so one person's "right" is another person's "wrong."


    Apple has for a very long time worked very hard to simplify the UI for less adept users. iOS is a culmination of their efforts thus far. But, as you and I can see, someone at Apple has a disconnect when it comes to UI for different types of computers. They've forgetten that a core guiding principle is that you have to design for both the application of the technology and the various level of users and find the right balance. Unfortunately, iOS is so hot right now that it's the toddler with the hammer approach: "Everything needs to be hammered upon!" So, while a touch interface lends itself to one way of doing something (such as scroll direction), that UI designer thinks it should be put in non-touch interfaces. It's fundamentally flawed, and I'm hoping someone at Apple will realize that change for change's sake is pointless when you're diluting the utility of your IU.


    Luckily, we are still given the option to change things back to the way we like them for the most part. What really irked me is the stripping of flexibility in the Finder to move and organize apps at will. The good thing is that with a few minutes of study, I was able to unlock that reduction in functionality.


    To put it plainly, it's stupid and lazy to make everyone conform to the lowest common denominator. I for a very, very long time (we're talking OS 7 days) have advocated allowing the UI to be customizable for various levels of technical proficiency. This trend to inject what's hot in disparate platforms without considering the implications and additional steps to make it work well is foolish.


    Launchpad is horrible on OS X because they didn't include the ability to sort and manipulate the ordering of apps automatically or even bother to include preferences so you could adjust things. If I wanted Launchpad in OS X I would have leveraged the advantages of a larger screen and allowed one to see all apps in one window so you didn't have to drag each app through multiple screens. Also, I would have allowed multiple application selection movement, application hiding, and contextual menus on right-clicking to allow access to advanced features (such as "show in finder", version number and get info) that exist in the Finder.


    Apple seems to have forgetten it's failed tile arrangement to simplify app launching that was present in a pre-OS X version for the Finder. I can't remember the name, but I believe it was tied to parental control, and was meant to allow for children and non-savvy people to easily launch programs. Launchpad is the exact same thing with a facelift. It didn't work on the desktop then, and it doesn't work now.


    Frankly, I have a much better way to organize and launch apps that is faster and less visually disruptive than Launchpad. So, while I played around with Launchpad, I am probably never going to use it until they make it faster and more flexible than my system.

  • Michelasso Level 1 Level 1 (80 points)

    I had the opportunity to touch an iPad 2 for the first time a week ago (I know. Tablets aren't very popular here yet. And really I didn't care). I didn't know how to use it. Same with the iPhone of a friend of mine. I felt like a moron.


    Really, this idea about OS X being dumbed down to please the iDevices users is just a myth. I am using Lion nearly in the exact same way I was using Snow Leopard. For sure I couldn't say the same with an iDevice.


    Also let's not forget that byt the time OS X 10.8 (or 11.0?) will be out, iOS will have reached version 6 or 7. Maybe even 8. With much better hardware. I think it's safe to think that it will be iOS moving more in the OS X direction, not the opposite.

  • Emilia Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    So you can confirm view settings are more "sticky" now in Lion? Thats good news. Using Lion or not is not a black and white matter for me. I just want to be sure that a new Version has more new features (than bugs ;-) which are "sexy" for me ;-) So far nothing in Lion really interested me. The new Mail looks good, if the Finder now is also improved I might reconsider my hesitation.


    Of course I would as always start with a 0.0.1 version or better higher. I have no time to work as beta tester for Apple...


    Thanks for the info!