Q: Lion randomly crashes - black screen

I have some bad news guys, read my last "UPDATE" here

Hello all,

just updated to 10.7.2 beta latest build (11C43) and still no go!

My bet is the problem is a defective NVIDIA 330M chip. Why?

1. A similar problem happened to the 2008 MBP computers and it was traced to the chip. See http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

2. That problem arose upon release of 10.5 Leopard. This one happened with the release of 10.7 Lion.

Each release of the OS often brings a more-powerful video driver, one that pushes more of the graphic processing into the chip. NVIDIA releases a chip, specs out its processing capability, but the OS doesn't yet use it all. Later, the OS catches up as the driver and APIs are revised to take better advantage of the chip's processing ability.

Just as Leopard ran into NVIDIA chip bugs, I suspect we're seeing faulty 330M chips.

This will take a while to sort out. Nailing the problem requires:  a) a supply of motherboards with defective chips; b) reliable test cases to cause the crash; c) reliable instrumentation of the driver to capture test results. I'll even bet NVIDIA has to provide a specially-instrumented chip or simulator to be able to look inside the chip to examine the firmware for problems.

Until the process is completed---and the defective run of chips is identified---motherboard replacements are probably a crapshoot.

All of this takes time. As for Apple not announcing "We're working round the clock," that's another issue.

As the owner of a Mid-2010 MBP-15 still running 10.6.7, I'm hoping it'll be a firmware or driver update.

Rick Auricchio wrote:

 

My bet is the problem is a defective NVIDIA 330M chip. Why?

 

________________________________________________________

 

Then how do you explain all the problems with the new MBPs, with a totally different video chip configuration that run under Lion

 

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/03/latest-macbook-pros-suffering-from-gpu -related-freezes.ars

 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2768351?threadID=2768351

 

The later is an even larger forum with 2011 MBPs having graphic related issues. There are those people with real hardware issues, but for the most part, this is a driver/ firmware/ file handling issue that will be resolved eventually...even tho the situation can be quite aggravating. Lion handles files totally differently than SL, and this is what we have to live with until the kinks are worked out. Since you're still running Snow Leopard, your wisest move is to just wait it out.

Then how do you explain all the problems with the new MBPs, with a totally different video chip configuration that run under Lion

OK, you've got me there; I was unaware the new MBPs were having video problems. Those have the AMD chip, which tends to put the problem somewhere in the driver, or in power-management, or somewhere higher in the OS.

This may turn out to be an obscure bug in something like Power Management, where it accidentally does something stupid to the video chip, like power it off unexpectedly. The video guys would have to trace it to PM and get them to fix things. Or there could be a support chip/PCB error that somehow ties the video chip to the disk spindown. Weird stuff like that might not be discovered in testing. (Disclaimer: This is pure speculation.)

Lion handles files totally differently than SL...

How so?

Since you're still running Snow Leopard, your wisest move is to just wait it out.

Absolutely. As a private support/repair/training professional, I need my MBP all the time. I'll have to wait till we have a definitive fix for the problem.

(I am experimenting with 10.7.1 on the 2006 MBP.)

As you maybe remember i had the BSOD on my Mac Pro since we had hot temperatures here in south Germany. Today i gave the machine another try, after 5 minutes i got the first BSOD. Then i installed smcFanControl, set the rpm to ~2.5k rpm for all fans and the temperature of the machine goes down from around 45 degree to 28 degree.

**** yeah, my Mac is now running nearly 3 hours with Aperture, CS5 and iTunes without any BSOD.

Chris

Rick Auricchio wrote:

 

Lion handles files totally differently than SL...

 

How so?

 

I wish I had the tecnical expertise to explain it to you , but I don't...these file differences show up in variouos ways...can't Time Machine your way back to Snow Leopard, Time Machine drives that konk out and have to be reformatted to run under Lion...not right away, but after repeated backups. I also spoke to Apple care and they also said that Lion has a different file structure. I had to eventually reformat my Time Machine external drive to get it to work OK with Lion. I've also had issues with large Aperture file imports, on my laptop (2010 i7 MBP 512 NVidia)  AND on a brand new 2011 MBP AMD with Lion preinstalled.

 

Since you're still running Snow Leopard, your wisest move is to just wait it out.

 

Good move...

 

I've found workarounds for most of my issues, and after 1 re-install of Lion and 3 Time Machine restores. and new printer drivers, everything is working the way I would expect a MBP to work...glad that's over.

Those explanations you were given of "different file structure" sound fishy to me. Different disk partitioning, yes. Time Machine being picky? It's tended to be troublesome before, so that's not necessarily an issue.

Could the 10.7 installer have missed something? Sure. But it doesn't explain why a preinstalled Lion system has problems.

Sounds like there are lots of unrelated problems Apple has to address...

gopackgo12 wrote:

 

Hello all,

just updated to 10.7.2 beta latest build (11C43) and still no go!

Since you clearly have access to developer seeds and therefore can report bugs to Apple, I hope you are reporting this fact to Apple. Just downloading it, installing, and finding that it doesn't fix a problem isn't helpful.

As I said before, I don't understand enough to know if things are fishy or not, and you're correct....Time Machine wasn't picky before, and it's not picky for me now under Lion on a reformatted hard drive. It works like it always did. So far, some of my Apple-owning friends had to reformat their time machine drives, and some of them didn't. Mine works now, which is all I really care about.

Lion is a brand new OS, and I'm sure there will be updates and patches....is there really any new OS that is perfect from the get go? But you're correct...there are lots of unrelated problems Apple has to address... On the plus side, Lion is wicked fast, and I do appreciate the new UI.

Rick Auricchio wrote:

 

Those explanations you were given of "different file structure" sound fishy to me. Different disk partitioning, yes. Time Machine being picky? It's tended to be troublesome before, so that's not necessarily an issue.

 

Could the 10.7 installer have missed something? Sure. But it doesn't explain why a preinstalled Lion system has problems.

 

Sounds like there are lots of unrelated problems Apple has to address...

Guys - can you check two things with me:

1) While doing a clean install of Lion - do you have a kernel panic on a stage of detecting wifi networks? I do.

2) In Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and iPhoto '11 - zoom in and out on a picture - this causes a kernel panic for me.

This whole story is just F... NUTS!

...some...friends had to reformat their time machine drives, and some of them didn't.

Yeah, sometimes a support person will recommend reformatting, when repairing with Disk Utility or DiskWarrior would have done the trick. But reformatting is fast and easy to recommend...and it gets the customer off the phone!

Lion is wicked fast

It sure seems so! The 2006 2.16 C2D MBPro/10.7.1 seems as snappy as the 2010 2.53 i5 MBPro/10.6.7, maybe even better. I'm looking forward to having that speed on my main machine---the i5 MBPro---when this video problem is resolved.

Hi,

I uptated my MBP 6,2 (i7 mid 2010), from SL to lion one month ago. When i as under SL i had this problem but just a few times but since i run Lion, i've got a black screen every hours, randomly.

When I open photobooth in full screen and i go on the second page of specials effects => black screen.

If I call my MBP with my iphone via Facetime => black screen.

Sometime with mission control => black screen.

If I use safari instead of firefox => black screen after 10 min, 5 if full screen mode.

I have a warrantie from french " FNAC " stores, during 3 years they exchange the old mac whith a brand new one if there is a hardware problem only. Do you think, they'll consider this problem as an hardware one or not ? I'm a student and I can't lose my computer for 3 weeks just to hear " thre is no hardware problem "...

Thank you very much.

For 1) yes I had it to ! Black screen when detecting wifi networks !

Rick Auricchio wrote:

Yeah, sometimes a support person will recommend reformatting, when repairing with Disk Utility or DiskWarrior would have done the trick. But reformatting is fast and easy to recommend...and it gets the customer off the phone!

Unfortunately I tried both Disk Utility and DiskWarrior, and that didn't work....that's when I callled Apple to hear what they had to say....they recommened Disk Utility again, nothing was found wrong with the drive, but it was still doing Time Machine backup a KB at a time, At that rate it would have been finished when I'm ready to buy my next MBP...only at that time did Apple Care recommend a format...not a biggie, and everything works fine now....didn't want to bore eveyone with the details...

Thanks for the exhange and helpful tips...have to batten down the hatches for Irene now...