Aperture running at a crawl since lion upgrade

Allow me to interject: yes, you do loose something when you run a properly designed 64 bit binary in 32 bit mode. The 64 bit qualifier does not only refer to the maximum addressable memory, which, in our case, may be of little value unless editing huge RAW images. It also refers to the data path width. A properly designed application will take advantage of the wider data path to squeeze more performance out of the 64 bit CPU and memory subsystem.

Everything else being equal and bugs ignored, it should be expected that Aperture in 64 bit mode would be slightly faster for many if not most operations. Having said that, I suspect the average user will not notice the difference.

I agree. I have tried both 32 bit and 64 bit and if there is any difference, it would require sophisticated measurements to find it.

And if 32 bit mode reduces paging, then the 32 bit mode would give the best performance.

Just jumping in here after finding this thread during a search. It has been most informational and helpful, and, as of last night, pretty much 100% solved my Aperture\Lion issues. I just wanted to note that I am a version 1 through latest version Aperture user, pretty heavy, with just over 50K images, both RAW and JPG in my database. (Managed). My current system is a late 07\early 08 iMac 24", 2.8Ghz, 4GB ram. I have a 640GB internal HDD where the Aperture Library resides. Free space on the drive is roughly 300GB.

Up until Lion, Aperture was very useable on my system.I upgraded to Lion a few weeks before a 2 week Disney vacation, and didn't really use Aperture much during that time. Upon returning, with roughly 3K images to process, I was extremely upset at the performance of Aperture on the system. It was BAD, as in literally minutes in between adjustments, constant beach balling etc, etc. I tried all the usual stuff, and was becoming very frustrated.

Anyway, rather than ramble on here, I took the advice of setting the app to 32 bit mode, and disabling spotlight search\indexing on the pictures directory. WOW! We are talking a MAJOR difference in performance. Before work this morning, I processed a few hundred images with zero major slow downs. The system is again VERY useable, even after extended useage, (Which for me, at least this morning, was maybe 2 hours of working on images; everything from standard adjustments, to cropping etc). Pre me changing these settings, it was truly unbearable.

Anyway, long term solution, right or wrong, I'm back to working properly again thanks to these forums.

Thanks all for all the work, research, and posting of findings here.

sorinfromtoronto wrote:

...is this high memory usage in 64 bit mode normal?

Yes. For generic architectural reasons 64-bit operation takes more RAM space than 32-bit operation does. In addition, with cheap RAM and architecture that supports its usage OS and app designers would be negligent if they did not evolve apps/OSs to utilize more RAM.

If it is, they need to change the application requirements and state a much higher minimum RAM requirement. If not, they need to fix it. We shall wait and see.

Apple and Adobe state ridiculously low RAM needs for their pro apps. They do consumers a disservice.

IMO the proper response would be for vendors to present a frank discussion of real RAM usage (including different OS versions and 32 v. 64) instead of the silly 1980s-type "minimum required RAM" specification.

IMO there is nothing to fix except the communication. Based on comments in this long thread it is apparent that many users do not acknowledge that the RAM/CPU/GPU demands of pro graphics apps increase over time and evolving OSs/apps. Apple and Adobe help foster that wrong attitude with false overly-simplistic System Requirements.

Apologies in advance to those for whom this info is redundant.

Some general guidelines for operation of heavy graphics applications (specifically Aperture):

• Only the strongest Macs will provide the strongest operation. Buyers of weaker boxes (CPU, GPU, i/o, RAM) or older boxes will experience lesser performance.

• There is a huge difference in hardware needs among workflows. A heavy pro workflow will only work best on a top well-equipped modern box.

• As RAM prices continually fall RAM needs will continually grow. This has been true since the beginning of computing.

OS X has enabled Photoshop, for instance, to take advantage of at least 32 GB RAM for many years even though 32-bit operation limited direct RAM access to ~3 GB RAM.

• All computers/OSs/workflows are different. Each individual user needs to carefully evaluate (meaning see what the early adopters report) workflow and hardware operation BEFORE upgrading any application or OS.

• Hardware upgrades should be planned for always-increasing future OS/application demands, not just for today. After all, a computer purchased today is used for the next 3 years, not last year.

• SSDs rock. 🙂 All users, all apps will benefit from using a solid state drive as the boot/apps drive. Strongly recommended. RAM-challenged setups will additionally benefit from 10x faster page outs.

• All users should regularly evaluate their workflows by checking the Page Outs number under System Memory on the Activity Monitor app before starting a work session; then rechecking after working. If the page outs number increased significantly during operation the workflow is RAM-starved and steps should be taken, such as increasing RAM or restarting and running only one app at a time - - or switching from 64-bit operation to 32-bit operation.

HTH

-Allen Wicks

I'm going to jump in here with my experience. I was running the latest version of Aperture 3 on a 20" mid 2007, 2.4 ghz iMac with 4Gigs of ram. In Snow Leopard, the performance was ok... not fantastic, but hey that's not a lightning fast system. After upgrading to Lion, running in 64 bit mode, Aperture was basically unusable. I like many of you tried 32 bit mode, which was better (usable) but not a great long term solution. This week I bought the mother ship iMac to once-and-for-all rid myself of these issues. I'm typing this on a one day old, 27" 3.4ghz i7 with 256GB SSD and 2TB HD, and the 2GB video card. This is a screaming fast machine. Ridicously fast.

I could not wait to open Aperture. After reestablishing my library I starting editing. In 64 bit mode. With 12 GIGS of RAM!!! I had one other application running called iCleanMemory which is great little application which monitors and frees up RAM.

After 5 minues my ram dropped, dropped, dropped to 9MB!! YES NINE MegaBites! (See Picture below)

So I called Apple. No way I'm dropping $3,500 on a flagship system and can't run Aperture. A few things they told me:

1) Yes Aperture is a memory hog.

2) Never run any application in 64bit mode on a system that doesn't have more than 4gigs of ram.

3) If you have over 4gigs use 64bit mode.

4) Ensure you have the latest update: 3.1.3

5) Aperture may continue to suck on all your ram over extended editing periods in 64 bit mode.

6) Closing and reopening Aperture should release the ram

7) Dont use face detection unless you're running a newer system with a butt load of ram.

My findings:

1) The update to 3.1.3 fixed 90% of my ram issues on my new iMac.

2) Aperture has not used more than 7gigs of ram after running the update.

3) Aperture is running extremely fast on my new system..... as it should for God's sake.

4) The update didn't help much on my older 2.4ghz iMac with 4gigs of ram.

5) Shutting off face detection does help on the older system.

6) Using 32bit mode also helps a lot.

In conclusion, I think Apple should consider the following:

1) Update the system requirements telling folks when to run 32bit mode, and when this will improve performance.

2) Ensure Aperture is releasing ram after the program is shutdown. I don't think it's all being released.

3) and FYI, they Apple customer service people were all very sharp and very helpful.

Thank you acssns for posting this info!

I've turned off faces, but reading your post that Apple says don't use 64 bit mode unless you have more than four gig got me thinking - I remembered that in Snow Leopoard (also a 64 bit OS) you could do something at boot time to go back to 32 bit mode. A quick search revealed that you press the numbers 3 and 2 on your keyboard and you're in 32 bit mode until next reboot.

But it also revealed a preference pane to do the same thing, and across boots to boot: http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/32299/sixtyfourswitcher

I have now gone through my Applications folder and set every application to 32 bit mode, I'm running a 32 bit kernel and Activity Monitor confirms that most processes (but far from all) are running in 32 bit mode.

I'm in Aperture and have edited a few photos and speed is back to Snow Leopard speeds *and* I have about 1 gig free RAM. That's *after* editing photos. I have 60 meg of swap (don't know why).

Stephen

Just following up on my follow up as well. 🙂 After making these changes, 32 bit and spotlight a few days ago with good results, I can report that even after a 6 hour editing session with 2500+ vacation pics, my system remained fast and stable. (Again, 2.8Ghz 4GB 24" iMac).

In a lot of ways, I think Aperture is now running BETTER than it did under Snow Leopard. I used to have delays at times during just about every adjustment, and frankly, now, while they pop up from time to time, the system is very useable, and very "smooth".

Anyway, thanks again to all for the findings on this stuff. It allows me to put off buying yet another iMac for at least year or so yet.

scooper4711 wrote:

...*and* I have about 1 gig free RAM.

To evaluate RAM adequacy measure Page Outs as described above.

SierraDragon wrote:

To evaluate RAM adequacy measure Page Outs as described above.

Zip. Nada. Goosegg. It'll go up briefly, but it goes right back down to zero very quickly.

Just went through about 300 photos - performance was...well, can't say "stellar" with Aperture on a 3 yr old, 4 gig machine, but quite acceptable.

Message was edited by: scooper4711 corrected spelling.

same here... whenever Aperture is open the processor works so hard that the system fan speeds up to exhaust the heat. even if i just want to empty my memory card contents to aperture, it's just snail slow. then my safari, finder, and the entire system become crawling slooooow. the beach ball starts to appear here and there..

i don't understand what's going on..

クリスkoto - try switching everyting to 32 bit mode. In Finder, go to your Applictions folder and get info for Aperture. There's a check-box which says "run in 32 bit mode". That solves it for many people here.

For me, I needed to switch the kernel to 32 bit mode and also turn off face detection in Aperture. Now things are working at acceptable speeds. I'd like to have face recognition, but I'll wait until I buy my next mac with more RAM.

scooper4711 wrote:

SierraDragon wrote:

To evaluate RAM adequacy measure Page Outs as described above.

Zip. Nada. Goosegg. It'll go up briefly, but it goes right back down to zero very quickly.

Just went through about 300 photos - performance was...well, can't say "stellar" with Aperture on a 3 yr old, 4 gig machine, but quite acceptable.

Message was edited by: scooper4711 corrected spelling.

I think what you are saying is that you are getting Page Outs, but in bursts, not that you are getting zero Page Outs.

Is that correct?

If you are getting any Page outs, then you definitely have RAM depletion. The bad news about Page Outs is not only the overhead of those Page Out I/Os, but the subsequent Page Ins of those pages which cause task delays. The Page Outs may be performed with little impact on your experiene, but Page Ins always slow you down.

scooper4711 wrote:

SierraDragon wrote:

To evaluate RAM adequacy measure Page Outs as described above.

Zip. Nada. Goosegg. It'll go up briefly, but it goes right back down to zero very quickly.

Just went through about 300 photos - performance was...well, can't say "stellar" with Aperture on a 3 yr old, 4 gig machine, but quite acceptable.

The statement "It'll go up briefly, but it goes right back down to zero" seems that you may not be measuring page outs (Activity Monitor/System Memory/Page Outs) properly. The absolute value of the page outs number means nothing to us.

Ignore all the cute pie charts, etc. The page outs number that interests us is a manual calculation: page outs at the end of a typical work session minus page outs recorded at the start of the work session (with no restarts during the session). If that manually calculated value is not zero then the workflow is RAM-deficient.

My 2006 3-GB RAM MBP has huge page outs increases running Aperture while my 2011 8-GB RAM MBP in 64-bit mode has zero page outs increases running Aperture. OS 10.6.8.

HTH

-Allen Wicks

Mine has been an absolute dog since upgrading to Lion. I mean REALLY slow, and I'm running 8GB OF RAM!!!!! This is on a 2.66 I7 Macbook pro.

I have to say I haven't been particularly impressed with Lion.

Thx

Matt