Chris J Witt

Q: Rosetta and Lion - Is there a solution?

I'm considering upgrading to Lion, mostly due to the fact it has drivers for Nvidia's 500 Series, so ATY_Init will be happy with it.

But, one problem... No rosetta, and a lot of the programs I use or test are not universal binary (Primarily Cocoa PPC or Carbon). So that raises the issue.

 

How would I go about getting Rosetta on to Lion? I'm assuming that it wouldn't be as simple as copying some Frameworks and Kexts... Do any solutions exist for this yet, like hacks or mods, or is it impossible? (Or too soon?)

Posted on Jul 21, 2011 2:30 AM

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Q: Rosetta and Lion - Is there a solution?

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  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang May 13, 2012 1:15 PM in response to petermac87
    Level 8 (37,815 points)
    Mac OS X
    May 13, 2012 1:15 PM in response to petermac87

    Yes and seeing that Rosetta has been dead for over 10 months now, it still amazes me that people need to use PPC programs at all with the choices around. Anything that won't run in Lion is too outdated and will be further outdated with the intro of Mountain Lion and future OSXs.

    Is there some good reason why you continue to denigrate users who must use PPC software? I'm almost certain you've seen this explanation from me before, but at the risk of being obnoxious, I'll say it again.

     

    Monaco Profiler. Yes, X-Rite has a new Intel only profiling package in i1 Profiler, which I do own and use as much as possible. But it has no scanner profiling module, and much more importantly, no true profile editor. And no, there is no other profiling software anywhere which can perform those functions. Until X-Rite updates i1 Profiler to include those features, I must be able to continue to use Monaco Profiler.

     

    Eversmart Supreme scanners. We have two of these, and there nothing else in a flat bed scanner that comes within even 100 miles of the quality of these things. They were originally designed by Scitex to compete at a quality level as close as possible to true PMT (Photo Multiplier Tube) drum scanners, at about a third of the price. Over time, Creo bought out Scitex, then Kodak bought out Creo. Kodak fairly recently shut down the entire scanner operation in Israel (even bulldozed the building), where Scitex was originally based. They did upgrade the software for OS X, but only what absolutely had to be Intel code to access the scanners. Everything else remained PPC.

     

    No, there is no other software to drive these scanners. Not ViewScan, Silverfast or anything else. Will anyone ever bring this software into full Intel code? It doesn't look like it at this time. All depends on if Kodak is willing to sell off the source code to another developer, if the original Scitex group didn't hang onto the rights to the software themselves.

     

    These are just my two examples I'm currently stuck at. Believe me, if I could move to all Intel code, I would.

  • by MlchaelLAX,

    MlchaelLAX MlchaelLAX May 13, 2012 2:05 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 4 (2,256 points)
    May 13, 2012 2:05 PM in response to Kurt Lang
  • by MlchaelLAX,

    MlchaelLAX MlchaelLAX May 13, 2012 2:13 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 4 (2,256 points)
    May 13, 2012 2:13 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt: I forgot about your post with your solution; good work!:

     

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/18117652#18117652

  • by MitchellFitz,

    MitchellFitz MitchellFitz May 29, 2012 2:57 AM in response to Chris J Witt
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 29, 2012 2:57 AM in response to Chris J Witt

    Buy another mac. (Mac Mini or Mac Air)

  • by ServerMac,

    ServerMac ServerMac Nov 25, 2012 11:58 AM in response to petermac87
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Nov 25, 2012 11:58 AM in response to petermac87

    OK, go ahead and update Latin WORDS, Age of Empires II, and all my other PPC apps for me so they work in Mountain Lion. I don't have any other choice because nobody else has made anything like these apps, and the developers have either moved on or (in the case of Latin WORDS) died. I still need the apps, so I'm not going to update to Lion and lose Rosetta just because someone at Apple decided to axe it for no reason.

    petermac87 wrote:

     

    Stuthejag wrote:

     

    I just contacted Applecare who told me explicitly that 10.6  server is licenced in virtualization, client isn't.  Seems pretty clear, unfortunately.

    Yes and seeing that Rosetta has been dead for over 10 months now, it still amazes me that people need to use PPC programs at all with the choices around. Anything that won't run in Lion is too outdated and will be further outdated with the intro of Mountain Lion and future OSXs.

     

    Good Luck

     

    Pete

  • by MlchaelLAX,

    MlchaelLAX MlchaelLAX Nov 25, 2012 2:09 PM in response to ServerMac
    Level 4 (2,256 points)
    Nov 25, 2012 2:09 PM in response to ServerMac

    ServerMac wrote:

     

    OK, go ahead and update Latin WORDS, Age of Empires II, and all my other PPC apps for me so they work in Mountain Lion. I don't have any other choice because nobody else has made anything like these apps, and the developers have either moved on or (in the case of Latin WORDS) died. I still need the apps, so I'm not going to update to Lion and lose Rosetta just because someone at Apple decided to axe it for no reason.

    petermac87 wrote:

     

    Stuthejag wrote:

     

    I just contacted Applecare who told me explicitly that 10.6  server is licenced in virtualization, client isn't.  Seems pretty clear, unfortunately.

    Yes and seeing that Rosetta has been dead for over 10 months now, it still amazes me that people need to use PPC programs at all with the choices around. Anything that won't run in Lion is too outdated and will be further outdated with the intro of Mountain Lion and future OSXs.

     

    Good Luck

     

    Pete

    Your frustration is real; although aiming at Apple is misplaced. Here is a post that I assembled for a similar question:

     

     

    Unfortunately you got caught up in the minor miracle of Rosetta.  Originally licensed by Apple when it migrated from the PowerPC CPU platform that it had used from the mid-1990's until the Intel CPU platform in 2006, Rosetta allowed Mac users to continue to use their library of PPC software transparently in emulation.

     

    However, Apple's license to continue to use this technology expired with new releases of OS X commencing with Lion (and now Mountain Lion).  While educational efforts have been made over the last 6 years, the fact is that Rosetta was SO successful that many users were caught unaware UNTIL they upgraded to Lion or Mountain Lion.

     

    Workarounds:

     

    1. If your Mac will support it, restore OS X Snow Leopard;

     

    2.  If your Mac will support it, partition your hard drive or add an external hard drive and install Snow Leopard into it and use the "dual-boot" method to choose between your PowerPC software or Lion/Mt. Lion;

     

    3.  Upgrade your software to Intel compatible versions, or find alternative software that will open your data files;

     

    3.  Install Snow Leopard (with Rosetta) into Parallels:

     

    Scrabble in Lion.jpg

                                  [click on image to enlarge]

     

    Full Snow Leopard installation instructions here:

     

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1365439

     

    NOTE: STEP ONE of the instructions must currently be completed on a Snow Leopard or Lion Mac and the resulting modified Snow Leopard.cdr install file can then be moved over to your Mountain Lion Mac for completion of the remaining steps.

     

    NOTE 2:  Computer games with complex, 3D or fast motion graphics make not work well or at all in virtualization.

  • by GaryGee,

    GaryGee GaryGee Dec 17, 2012 8:16 PM in response to MlchaelLAX
    Level 1 (11 points)
    Dec 17, 2012 8:16 PM in response to MlchaelLAX

    I understand the rationale that Apple no longer has the licensing for Rosetta. So why isn't someone else selling it?

     

    Not being able to run my little PPC program SkyMACMate under Lion 10.7.5 now means my desktop Skype phone is crippled. I don't really feel like installing a dual boot system just so I can use the telephone. I'd need it to be running all the time for the phone to be of any use so I'm much better off to wipe the drive and start over with my old Snow Leopard DVD.

     

    But how do I get the pre-installed Lion back in the future if ever I change my phone hardware? I don't see any way to save the OS when I downgrade.

  • by MlchaelLAX,

    MlchaelLAX MlchaelLAX Dec 17, 2012 8:43 PM in response to GaryGee
    Level 4 (2,256 points)
    Dec 17, 2012 8:43 PM in response to GaryGee

    GaryGee wrote:

     

    I understand the rationale that Apple no longer has the licensing for Rosetta. So why isn't someone else selling it?

     

    Good question: Not only would the new licensee have to license the underlying technology from IBM, but they would both have to figure out how to program the hooks needed for it to work with Lion and then acquire the necessary license from Apple. 

     

    In addition to the fact that Apple would not want a third party fooling around with Lion in such a manner, the costs involved to acquire these licenses and program the hooks would probably be well out of the reach of any possible income that would come from making this available to the increasingly shrinking (is that an oxi-moron?) user base of Lion users that need to run PowerPC applications.  There is just no future in it!

     

    On the other hand, what about my suggestion (running Snow Leopard with Rosetta installed into Parallels concurrently with Lion) so that you could continuously use SkyMacMate, didn't you like???

     

     

    Screen Shot 2012-12-17 at 8.30.22 PM.png

                                  [click on image to enlarge]

  • by DarlieBrewster,

    DarlieBrewster DarlieBrewster Apr 27, 2013 2:31 PM in response to MlchaelLAX
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 27, 2013 2:31 PM in response to MlchaelLAX

    Running a dual system is a pain. Just give up installing Lion. This loss of legacy will cost the user million in the end.

  • by MlchaelLAX,

    MlchaelLAX MlchaelLAX Apr 27, 2013 4:44 PM in response to DarlieBrewster
    Level 4 (2,256 points)
    Apr 27, 2013 4:44 PM in response to DarlieBrewster

    Purchasers of new Macs do not have the option to load/run Snow Leopard. This is their only option to run PowerPC and Lion/Mt. Lion.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Apr 28, 2013 11:58 AM in response to DarlieBrewster
    Level 8 (37,815 points)
    Mac OS X
    Apr 28, 2013 11:58 AM in response to DarlieBrewster

    MlchaelLAX is correct. Since you (almost 100% of the time) can't install an OS older than the one your Mac came with, the only two options are:

     

    1) Run Snow Leopard in a VM, such as Parallels (and hope the software can a see device from within it)

     

    2) Keep an older Mac around for PPC software which can boot directly into Snow Leopard.

  • by MlchaelLAX,

    MlchaelLAX MlchaelLAX Apr 29, 2013 4:52 PM in response to Kurt Lang
    Level 4 (2,256 points)
    Apr 29, 2013 4:52 PM in response to Kurt Lang

    Kurt Lang wrote:

     

    ...Since you (almost 100% of the time) can't install an OS older than the one your Mac came with...

    I think that a common exception is the late 2011 iMac which, although it came shipped with Lion, will allow Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.7 to be installed on it.

     

    The "trick" is to find a grey Snow Leopard Install disc for a similar model (MBP) or install the retail SL 10.6 or 10.6.3 into a partition on another Mac, upgrade it to 10.6.8, clone it and then restore the clone to the late 2011 iMac.

  • by Kurt Lang,

    Kurt Lang Kurt Lang Apr 30, 2013 5:54 AM in response to MlchaelLAX
    Level 8 (37,815 points)
    Mac OS X
    Apr 30, 2013 5:54 AM in response to MlchaelLAX

    The Mac Pro has a series like that, too. We got one of the last 2010 Mac Pro's with Snow Leopard in the box. But for quite a while, the same Mac Pros were being bundled with the then current Lion. If you could find the gray disks, you could get the "newer" Mac Pro's to boot to Snow Leopard since the hardware was identical. Or as you note, a clone from a similar Mac Pro running 10.6.8.

     

    Heck, I'm not sure the Mac Pro has changed much in the last three years. If you check the current lineup, the base 4 core model can be upgraded to the 6 core chip (same as mine), and still has the same Radeon 5770 card as the default choice. Except for possible firmware changes that might prevent you from using older gray disks to install SL, it still might even run it from a clone.

  • by cruttis,

    cruttis cruttis Nov 8, 2013 6:53 AM in response to MlchaelLAX
    Level 1 (13 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 8, 2013 6:53 AM in response to MlchaelLAX

    Sorry I am a year too late but Apple has stopped users using Parallels to VM SL. You can, 'bodge' it to work but not knowing how, you can only install the SL Server in VM.

     

    I find it quite strange that a 2MB chunk of 'Magic' Rosetta, wrapped within a folder of 3MB, that under SL one had the OPTION to install has gone!

     

    Apple had no worries @ PPC code, the 'hooks' were only required after the exit in Native code this small MAGIC chunk produced. (AFAIK)

     

    From my POV I relish Eudora and GoLive 8. I installed Mavericks (FW) and started to up-mentalise to Entourage & GoLive 9, then found Quicktime ALSO used Rosetta for embedded MIDI in Browsers! (Deprecated in QTX with NO 3rd party allowance!)

     

    Apple NEVER told me!

     

    I only use MIDI as entertainment on sites. MANY people SELL MIDI, and if the USER cannot hear, their INCOME will SUFFER!

     

    Apple STILL supports QT in Windows that CAN play embedded MIDI. WHY?

     

    Many musicians it is alleged are buying old PPC machines because the audio rendering is much faster than a 'Unix + Pretty-GUI' that spends too much time in rotational prettyness?

     

    Apples decision to migrate OS>9>X was hard but welcomed. PPC code>Intel welcomed (because of Rosetta) but, surely, migrating X>iOS would have been much better if one had the OPTION to use Rosetta or not? Surely users would have still upgraded to L/ML/Mavs/11?

     

    Even 'Hackintosh' experimenters have been fooled into, 'Look, Mavericks running!' "Why run Legacy S/W like SL....'

     

    I have no option. I like Mavericks after I stopped the, 'Kiddie-stuff.'

     

    Maybe I'll like it just like migrating from OS9>X?

     

    I have NO CHOICE!

  • by MlchaeILAX,

    MlchaeILAX MlchaeILAX Nov 8, 2013 9:57 AM in response to cruttis
    Level 1 (25 points)
    Nov 8, 2013 9:57 AM in response to cruttis

    cruttis wrote:

     

    I find it quite strange that a 2MB chunk of 'Magic' Rosetta, wrapped within a folder of 3MB, that under SL one had the OPTION to install has gone!

    Apple's license to use the technology underlying Rosetta expired with the release of OS X Lion.  It is doubtful that the current owner of this technology, IBM, would license it to Apple at a reasonable price, even if Apple were inclined to do so.

     

     

    cruttis wrote:

     

    I have NO CHOICE!

     

    There are lots of "choices":

     

    Much software can be upgraded or replaced with alternatives that can run in Mavericks.

     

    Macs up through 2010 and some in 2011 can "dual-boot" into Snow Leopard installed on a separate partition or external drive.

     

    Older Macs are still available that will run Snow Leopard.

     

    Snow Leopard can be virtualized within Mavericks.

     

    You have determined that there is NO CHOICE for YOU!

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