Disable autosave

I didn't wait for your messages to work with Lion and Versions.

I already wrote that rotating a picture is editing it so it's normal that it's versioned.

The 'edited' state is not related to Versions but to Autosave.

If what you don't understand was restricted to my two late sentences your problem would be a minor one.

I will try to write these sentences with other words : as far as I know, I'm free to write here that I disagree with what you write.

Sometimes what I write match the Apple choices, sometimes it doesn't.

About Versions and Autosave I disagree with you and think that I'm allowed to write that.

From my point of view, the only drawback with Versions is that we have no official interface to extract versions of a document if this one is corrupted.

It's because I know Versions quite well that I was able to write scripts fitting the named gap.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 26 octobre 2011 21:45:10

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Yvan, you can write what ever you want, theoretically. And Apple can code and develop their apps like they want. theoretically. But besides the technical and legal rules there are more factors to take into account in the real world.

In your case I think you have no clue how to behave in the social system here, so you get the role of the strange dude posting a lot of crap.

Regarding Apple, they might have a great idea, but it only works out if "people" (the users) have the same oppinion and like, accept and use it. That's a common mistake in many industries: Engineers develop the technically best possible product, but no one buys it because a less perfect product might be far better in terms of usability.

That means for me that I would highly prefer the way without Versions/Autosave. The benefits are marginal and it just gives me too much headache and concerns about what is saved and what not. The app wants a lot of attention and clicks for tasks that shouldn't bother the user at all.

(1) Don't dream, I will continue to write here as long as this thread will be open.

(2) Apple is perfectly free to apply to their apps changes which you dislike. I will no reproduce one more time the license which clearly state that there is no guarantee that a given product fit your needs.

(3) I don't force you to change your advice, I repeqat and will continue to repeat that Apple is free to continue without taking care of your advice. If you get headaches,there are efficient medicines to fight them.

(4) During the life of Numbers '08, users like me left some users asking for documents opening in the middle of the screen without saying that from our point of view it was a bad idea. The result was that Apple changed the behavior and delivered Numbers '09 with documents opening in the middle of the screen.

Same thing with headers which, to accomodate some requests, dropped an important and efficient feature.

This time I will not behave the same.

You are free to post your wishes but I will continue to post why I feel that what you ask is a bad formula.

(5) At the very end, it's Apple which will decide. Here is an excerpt from Apple Interface Human Guidelines :

Even though that smaller group of power users is likely to have good ideas for features, the majority of your user base may not think in the same way. Involving a broad range of users in your design process can help you find the 80 percent solution.

I repeat that I am not saying that Versions and Autosave are required features but that making them optional would be dumb.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 27 octobre 2011 09:26:33

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

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On the whole, I can see where you're coming from, though I disagree. However, you've lost me with this statement. I got your point that you don't think Apple will listen. I got your point that Apple may not care, but I don't get this point:

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

...making them optional would be dumb.

How so?

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

(1) Don't dream, I will continue to write here as long as this thread will be open.

The easy way to deal with this is:

Just scroll through your incoming emails, trash all the ones created by Koenig, and read all the other ones.

Life gets better !

🙂

I already answer that.

A safety feature make sense only when it apply every time.

Motocar drivers/passengers or aeroplane passengers aren't said "fasten your seat belt when you want".

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 27 octobre 2011 10:42:38

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

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Yvan KOENIG wrote:

----

"I already answer that.

A safety feature make sense only when it apply every time.

Motocar drivers/passengers or aeroplane passengers aren't said "fasten your seat belt when you want"."

----

- I am afraid that the above fails to address the problems faced by those who find that Autosave and Versions are not safety features, but impediments to their workflow. Moreover they are unnecessary. They are not analogous to a seat belt. When sitting in a car or an aeroplane the very circumstance means that safety cannot be maintained without imposition of safety, because the situation is dangerous. But, it is not dangerous to let people learn how to save their work. On the contrary, if one refuses to let people learn they never will and thus they will remain unable to think for themselves and make appropriate choices. There is no greater safety in denying people the right to decide how their own computers should work. In an aeroplane it is impossible to reduce the risk as long as you arein the air. With a computer, you can always save manually in order to avoid loss of data.

Please do not tell me that I am unable to save my own data!

A similar principle is true for the "Library" in OS X Lion. Why is it hidden by default? It is not a relevant answer to say that it is for preventing people from messing with vulnerable parts of their system, because if you don't learn what is in your computer you cannot ever utilize it fully. How, for example, extract cache contents from a hidden Library? People who do not know that there is such a thing as a Library never learn, and they cannot learn how to act sensibly and avoid destroying something if they do not know about its existence. To try to protect people from themselves by limiting their options is always a bad idea.

If something is dangerous, it is preferable to learn how to handle it.

If something is dangerous, it is preferable to learn how to handle it.

Precisely! A "safety device" is useful only as it can be intentionally turned off, otherwise it becomes a nuisance. My shop table saw has lots of safety devices that need to be removed for certain operations. The operator needs to learn how to use it. I've migrated here from the Keynote discussion thread. Keynote 5.1 is incompatible with OS 10.7 when you have imbedded videos. Autosave/Versions bogs it down hopelessly. The only solution is to stay with Keynote 5.0.5 which does not use the Autosave/Versions feature.

Lion is looking more and more like Apple's Vista.

Nice point, Vista Fanboy!

After 27 years of working with Macintosh OS, I know a bomb when I see one. 😁 OS 10.7 is doing a great job driving people to MS Office.

Agreed William. I bought it when it first came out and, after 5 frustrating, hair-pulling days, I went back to Snow Leopard (THANK GOD I had the foresight to do a complete Time Machine backup before I "upgraded").

I keep returning to this forum in hopes that they have fixed the many, many, many problems with Lion, but I just keep hearing the same horrible thing. One of the main reasons I won't upgrade to a new Mac is that I don't want to get stuck with Lion.

Do we need to drive to Cupertino and BEG them to fix this sloppy, useless OS? When does OSX 10.8 come out?

Holding iWork to v. 9.0.5 (which in effect surpresses Autosave/Versions) is a workable solution short of downgrading to 10.6. I'm seeing enough quirky behavior from Lion, including arbitrarily leaving web sites such as this one while in Safari, to lead me to wonder if Lion was not yet ready for prime time. It seems that the big push was to get OS X up to speed with iOS 5 for the sake of iCloud and some other iPhone related bells and whistles, causing me to wonder whether the profitable iPhone/iPad/iPod market is displacing computers and productivity software within Apple. Apple's reputation for seamless integration of software has taken a big hit here.

How refreshing to find another thread in which Yvan is carrying on just as he has in all the others: obdurately insisting that he is right, while completely ignoring posters who show very convincingly how wrong he is. (I notice he made no response, for example, to the poster who said that Auto Save made it impossible for him to work in Keynote, Auto Saving literally every couple of keystrokes in such a way that his work ground to a virtual halt. Want to bet that he ignores it again, now that I've brought it up?)

Let's see how he does with this one: Yvan, you state that "I will continue to post why I feel that what you ask is a bad formula" and "making them optional would be dumb."

The thing is, you have never once posted WHY making Auto Save/Versioning optional would be "bad forumula" or "dumb"..you've just stated it as if this truth was self-evident.

Please describe to us, in plain English (oops, sorry...strike that last phrase! — and by the way, I have no problem with the way you write our language, just the attitude behind it), the sheer havoc that would result if Lion 10.3 comes out with Auto Save/Versioning as the default, but able to be disabled via System Preferences.

Please be very specific in your description.

And I would like to hear how bringing back the extremely simple, efficient, and useful SaveAs would be a "bad" thing while you are at it.

I already wrote several times but you appear to be unable to understand that a safety device must be available every time.

When a worker is on scaffoldings he must be attached.

When somebody is in a motorcar, he must fasten his seat belt

Same thing when you are in an airplane.

I studied to become an engineer (then I decided to work as a potter) but during my studies Safety was an important discipline.

The rule is never trust upon the beings to decide when a device is useful request that it's always activated.

If you behave the other way, you may be sure that the accident will strike when the device is out.

Other examples :

navigators must be attached during races.

cyclists and motor-cyclists must wear their casque (helmet).

Vaccination against several diseases are obligatory for the same reasons

As far as I know, smoking is no longer allowed in the USA for safety reasons and I hope that it will soon be the same here in France.

As AutoSave and Versions were designed as safety features, they make sense only if they are always active.

Navigators dislike the fact to be attached but they apply the rule.

Cyclists dislike the fact to have their casque during the "Tour de France" but they have no choice, they must apply the rule.

In France, a motor-cyclist driving his machine without wearing a casque is stopped by policemen

…

Workers dislike the fact to must attach themselves when they are on scaffoldings but since that they are forced to do that, the number of mortal accidents was drastically reduced.

Apple decided to play safety.

They did that when they decided that every application must embed sandboxing features.

This is why Rosetta is no longer available and why sandboxing compatibility is required to be accepted on the MAS.

Apple applications apply these safety rules. If you like playing with matches, it's your problem and you are free to use non Apple products.

On its side, Apple is perfectly consistent.

If you want to play an other game, they are a lot of applications able to fit your wishes but don't ask Apple to break the schemes which they patiently designed knowing perfectly that some users will disagree with them.

Last week I responded in a Pages dedicated forum to a user writing that it was inacceptable that iWork 9.0.5 applications don't embed an Autosave feature.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 27 octobre 2011 23:04:09

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.2

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community